Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (982 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Getting rid of systemd and putting sysv back
On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 08:40:17AM -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 09/24/2014 02:15 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
I don't think the same
about systemd so much any more after reading a few days ago this:

That's excellent.

And when people like aaron resort to suggesting using tactics normally
practised by terrorists groups such as the IRA of the 1970s on
individuals who are part of the systemd development group, well that
says a lot about them. Perhaps the Homeland Security people should be
advised of this.

You can not trust 'engineers' with the decision making power over your
system because they tend to have fundementally flawed views of what is
and is not acceptable use and design for technology. The use and
implementation of technology is, as a fact, a social and political
question, and not a technological one. Never the less, despite rants to
the contrary, a huge number of individuals didn't wake up on a Tuesday
morning and just decide to "attack" the project of systemd. There is
REAL cause for rejecting systemd. But the number one reason is that,
aside from it being un-unix like, for whatever that is, but it is a huge
POWER GRAB. A large number of well understood and well working tools
have been absorbed in one fell swoop by systemd. Now that might be fine
is say, postwar soviet East Germany, for my GNU system in NYC, I don't
like it and I really don't like needing to needlessly relearn the root
of the system to wrap it around this huge white elephant.

That being said, I didn't ask this question to debate the merits of
systemd, as few as there are. I'm not interested in systemd any more
than I'm interested in Aqua, or Internet Explore and .Net. I've already
made my decision about the merits and lack of merits of the program and
I would like to remove it from my system, if I can.


Lennart Poettering is just one individual in that group. Assassinating
him, be it by character or by shotgun as the violent-minded aaron
advocates, will not halt systemd development.

Perhaps some people are too inclined to 'code' and don't understand how
to use a declarative language rather than a procedural language.
Perhaps that, too, is indicative of what schools and colleges are
churning out as 'gunfodder' for the IT world these days.

Which is sad. Highly parallel programming, the kind that is going to be
needed to deal with highly parallel programming, will be more concerned
with a 'declarative' model, with triggers and events, than the old
procedural code.

If the "UNIX Way" is limited to the models of "Software Tools" and other
similar books then we are going to be stuck in what amounts to a
stream-processing mode. That means the event-driven style needed to
deal with GUIs as well as many real-time and 'headless' applications at
which *NIX excels such as network processing, banking and finance and
more don't fit any more than systemd fits. So obviously there's more to
it than that. And that is why I think the 17 points in that article sum
up 'The Unix Way" much better.

That the anti-systemd people like aaron feel they have to resort to
using shotguns and physical violence tells me a lot: that they have
failed in any argument based on reason and so must resort to violence.
As one philosopher said: "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent".

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