Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (982 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Getting rid of systemd and putting sysv back
On 24/09/14 13:40, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 09/24/2014 02:15 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
I don't think the same
about systemd so much any more after reading a few days ago this:

That's excellent.

Those 17 points sum up 'the UNIX way' very well, much better than the
rants we've seen here, which have mostly been recidivist.

The claims that systemd is undocumented and similar are quite unfounded.
There's a "Big Lie" being carried out by the anti-systemd people; they
seem to think that if they make false claims often enough and loudly
enough they can convince us about something that is quite demonstrably
not the case.

My background is mathematics and engineering and I'm inclined to "look
to the evidence", and the evidence I see is that the claims of the
anti-systemd people are not based on demonstrable facts and evidence, in
fact the evidence contradicts what they say.

And when people like aaron resort to suggesting using tactics normally
practised by terrorists groups such as the IRA of the 1970s on
individuals who are part of the systemd development group, well that
says a lot about them. Perhaps the Homeland Security people should be
advised of this.

Lennart Poettering is just one individual in that group. Assassinating
him, be it by character or by shotgun as the violent-minded aaron
advocates, will not halt systemd development.

Perhaps some people are too inclined to 'code' and don't understand how
to use a declarative language rather than a procedural language.
Perhaps that, too, is indicative of what schools and colleges are
churning out as 'gunfodder' for the IT world these days.

Which is sad. Highly parallel programming, the kind that is going to be
needed to deal with highly parallel programming, will be more concerned
with a 'declarative' model, with triggers and events, than the old
procedural code.

If the "UNIX Way" is limited to the models of "Software Tools" and other
similar books then we are going to be stuck in what amounts to a
stream-processing mode. That means the event-driven style needed to
deal with GUIs as well as many real-time and 'headless' applications at
which *NIX excels such as network processing, banking and finance and
more don't fit any more than systemd fits. So obviously there's more to
it than that. And that is why I think the 17 points in that article sum
up 'The Unix Way" much better.

That the anti-systemd people like aaron feel they have to resort to
using shotguns and physical violence tells me a lot: that they have
failed in any argument based on reason and so must resort to violence.
As one philosopher said: "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent".

I have no axe to grind about systemd, the "debate" is way over my head.

What I "do" think is if anybody posts to this list implicit threats of violence (whether meant to be ironic or not) they and anybody else that behaves like that should be immediately barred from using this list.

I have subscribed here since about 1989 I have never put back anything like what I have gained, but if it carries on like this I will say goodbye (without expecting to be missed the way C will be).


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