Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (1239 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] RE: Stability of systemd
John Andersen said the following on 06/16/2013 12:07 AM:
On 6/15/2013 8:45 PM, Duaine Hechler wrote:
On 06/15/2013 10:39 PM, Cristian Rodr�guez wrote:
On 06/15/2013 11:28 PM, Duaine Hechler wrote:
Is systemd more reliable and stable in 12.3, than in 12.1 and 12.2 ?

Or is keeping with sysvinit the better way to stay ?

What are you looking for specifically ? can't answer vague questions..
"stability" means different things depending on the context.

Of course systemd has bugs like any other software, however most problems in
older version are derived from issues in the openSUSE
implementation and packages totally unrelated with it

Since I can't point to anything specific at the point, I'm thinking more in
general. I remember with the older 2 versions, it was - highly -
recommended to disable systemd and use sysvinit. So, is there a recommendation
(then) ?


Well it seems that Systemd works for me, but I find my self at a loss trying to
maintain things
I use to know how to deal with. There is a learning curve that I have not yet
climbed.

I'm further along that curve and I'm quite happy with systemd. I can't imagine going back to sysvinit now! It appears clunky and ad-hoc (in CMM terms). I realise that, in post years, I've built things like systemd (table driven task manager) to deal with otherwise obdurate ad-hoc applications that were implemented with a collection of scripts that were all written independently and had little in common, even though there was a very strong underlying commonality.

My feeling now is 'why wasn't this done a _long_ time ago?'


For Joe user its probably useable if not still has some of maddening bugs, but
that is the purpose
of opensuse, (finding bugs).

Indeed. As Cristian has pointed out many of those bugs are not bugs per-se but things that have arisen from design decisions with openSuse. They are reversible since they are usually configuration issues.

The problems I had with systemd were an emergent property of the way I had my prior system configured. The big hurdle was DNS, since I had this huge ad-blocker implemented in DNS (see http://pgl.yoyo.org/) and had to adjust the time-out. I also use fetchmail and that had to be made dependent on postfix and spamd. So I had to learn about .service files.

For corporate use, or complex use cases, I might still prefer Sysvinit.

One might argue that leading edge stuff is not for corporate (but if that's so why update office packages and databases and webservers and perl/php/python?) but systemd will accommodate complex configurations much more cleanly - that is visibly and more easily to modify, simply because of the highly constrained what it controls interactions.


Sysvinit may not scale well to really huge machines, but that's a problem I
will never have to worry about.

Indeed, since the really massive machines are going to be running AIX or HP/UX or - drum roll, please - VM/CMS.

(I skipped all of 12.x until 12.3 came out). So on my machine I started with
SystemD from the novice
prospective. So far no major problems.

I'm running 12.2 with brtrfs and 12.3 and also have systemd running on a server with Mageia-v2 and a another workstation with Fedora-18. The Mageia is very conservative and the Fedora more aggressive. If there are 'bugs-that-are-bugs' as opposed to configuration matters such as those Cristian raises they aren't getting in my way.

The problems-that-were-not-bugs were of my own making, usually resulting from my lack of understanding. Reading the documentation - Lennard does good stuff - and suggestions from Cristian *always* cleared that up, even if it did leave me feeling stupid for not seeing it right away. Thank you Cristian for your patience.


--
We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question which
divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of
being correct. My own feeling is that it is not crazy enough.
-- Niels Bohr
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