Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (770 mails)

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Re: systemd kool-aid [was Re: [opensuse] Separate /usr?]
  • From: Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:42:35 -0400
  • Message-id: <>
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:22 PM, David C. Rankin
<drankinatty@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 08/14/2012 07:18 PM, Brian K. White wrote:

It's perfectly ok to invent systemd and for some systems to use it. That
entirely within the free world of unix. But it's just not a good tool for
managing a general purpose OS like Suse. It's good for highly specialized,
limited, focused and managed black boxes like appliances, phones, tablets,
maybe chromebooks. But until it becomes as flexible as the shell scripts
replacing (which it could, they just refuse to), it's no good for a
purpose OS. It makes the OS more efficient for some things, more
and less useful.

Why do distributions seem to drink the same kool-aid? Some seem to just run
to the punch bowl and fill their cup with the latest batch, while others
linger talking to friends until they get thirsty. However, due to the fact
that only one punch bowl is chilled -- all seem to eventually drink from it.

Systemd is a great example. I have not run into a limitation that
init-scripts cannot accommodate, but since it seem that handhelds are
capable of booting it, we now have everyone in the room (Linux distros
collectively) running to dump init-scripts and move to systemd, just because
it looks like some new fancy-colored punch in the bowl.

As with all new recipes, it's not quite done, and it needs a few more
ingredient before it actually tastes as good as the old... But since it is
new, let's just abandon our old favorite and rush to the new...

I'm all for improved, more capable, more flexible, etc..., but sometimes is
seems there is no compelling reason for a new flavor of punch. Systemd seems
like the poster child of this craze...

In all of the discussion about systemd, all anyone should care about is:

(1) Does systemd provide *needed* additional capabilities that are not
currently available;

(2) What are they?

(3) What are the disadvantages of the switch?

(4) Do the advantages significantly outweigh the disadvantages, taking
into consideration the time, talent and energy required to implement the
change (for both the developers and end-users)?

If it is justified -- do it. If it is just being pushed because it is
somebody pet project, then seriously consider impacting all end-users before
foisting the change on them. It just leaves Linux looking punch-drunk...


There were tons of emails pro/con the move to systemd on the factory
mailing list about 15 months ago.

I can't say I remember all the pros/cons, but go hit the factory
archives if you want to see them.

IIRC, the biggest issue was integration with newer messaging
sub-systems like d-bus.

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