Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (818 mails)

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[opensuse] Re: openSUSE build & testing procedure and faulty pruning of builds causing rpmbuild failures
Greg Freemyer wrote:
openSUSE has moved to a new build paradigm and you are complaining the
old one no longer works and you can't use it to build the distro
pieces.
---

I am complaining that one cannot use a standard suse
distro machine to do a build of the source packages anymore.

It's not about new and old. I get new versions of compiler make, even
samba uses a python tool instead of configure/make for samba4, but it
still builds on my local OpenSuSE12.1 system.

The source packages from OBS are not robust.

It is NOT that they don't have requirements listed -- they do -- but
they are requiring something that the rpm build system never provisioned
for...

They are requiring you NOT to have various packages installed *during
the build*, because the build can pick up extra available tools to build
more support or to optimize the build.

Instead of building packages as they would be build by an installed
distro, they
are building some arbitrary subset that isn't built to work with the entire
distro they ship.

If that's the case, they should stop shipping those extra packages
and sources and stop pretending that this giant collection of RPMs is all
one compatible distribution.

It's more important, TO ME, to have a distribution that works together
that I can use to rebuild itself, than to have "bigger numbers" of packages
that I can't really use (but don't know it) because if I do, builds will go
awry.

I think this thread (series of threads) have made is clear the core
set of openSUSE maintianers simply don't care if the old legacy way
still works or not.
-----------

Several people have mentioned to me that they and others who
no longer post have given up on trying to get their opinions heard, but
that they appreciate my efforts, as it bespeaks to many of the issues they
brought up, attempted to have addressed, and had ignored.

openSUSE has invested great effort into obs and they are properly
proud of it. I think OBS is one of the crown jewels of opensuse.
---

Of that I have think no one disagrees -- and that's part of the problem.
If you had such a nice new toy... and someone didn't want to use it, how
well would you respond?

I didn't even ask them *NOT* to use it -- I asked them to
change their 'base system', from a "minimum necessary" (which will NEVER
represent what users have on their machines), to a full development install,
which should catch 90% of the interactions between packages during build
that
can happen to customers -- and allow them to be fixed before they hit
the customer.


I know this upsets the 'train schedule' theory of product release, but
sorry, you can't schedule creative efforts like building machines. Each
release
is something that has NEVER been done before. It's never been tried --
never
been put together "exactly this way" -- to expect that you can predict
how long
that is going to take reliable is foolish, wishful thinking.


How can you predict how long that which has never been done before? One
way is to eliminate all complexity and as many unknowns as possible.
You can
do this by NOT creating a distro, but by building a collection of
packages in
isolation from each other -- that when run in a particular way (like a
script),
will give a more specific result. But no longer do you have a
distribution that's
integrated and designed to work together -- but a collection of packages
designed to be run and generated in only certain predictable ways.

That's not a personal computer -- that's an appliance.

What people are talking about is shifting SuSE from a linux-distro
builder to
a linux-appliance builder (or a platform for building linux
appliances). That would
indicate that openSuSE is removing themselves from the linux distro
market, and going
for a niche subset market, while still telling people they are a linux
distro.

I wanna know -- when was the decision made to shift away from being a linux
distro and become an appliance-OS vendor?


Was this made clear to everyone working with opensuse? I didn't
realize it until this set of emails, that this was the most likely
reason, behind the scenes, for
this to occur.... but it makes sense with other projects open Suse has
gotten into.

I could say more, but I want to address your other points...


The normal way from my perspective to build a package is to checkout a
local copy of the package from OBS and use "osc build" to build it.

You've argued that since that interacts with OBS it isn't satisfactory.
---

No... checking it out from OBS -- let me use svs/cvs/mercurial/git...
whatever, osc hasn't worked for me yet. Tried yesturday to install more of
those packages and they failed due to the server being down/unreachable.

2012-07-19 14:17:50 <2> Ishtar(2980) [YCP] PackageCallbacks.ycp:2075
Download failed: error 4: File
'./x86_64/obs-server-2.3.3-5.1.x86_64.rpm' not found on medium
'http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tools/openSUSE_12.1/'
2012-07-19 14:19:48 <2> Ishtar(2980) [YCP] PackageCallbacks.ycp:2075
Download failed: error 4: File './x86_64/obs-api-2.3.3-5.1.x86_64.rpm'
not found on medium
'http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tools/openSUSE_12.1/'
2012-07-19 14:23:05 <1> Ishtar(2980) [YCP] PackagesUI.ycp:494
Installation summary:


Package Installation Failed

* Error Message:


Packages

* Failed Packages: 2
obs-api, obs-server
* Installed Packages: 93
MozillaThunderbird, apache2-mod_xforward, augeas, dbus-1-glib-doc,
deltarpm, enblend-enfuse, flash-player-gnome, flash-player-kde4...
(more) <installed_packages>
* Removed Packages: 1
esound-daemon


Statistics

* Elapsed Time: 03:04
* Total Installed Size: 152.38 MB
* Total Downloaded Size: 4.89 MB


Details

* Installation log <install_log>
* Post-Installation log (SUSEconfig) <postinstall_log>


Note -- despite my posts here, I am still trying to make progress on
multiple
fronts, -- including installing the recommended osc packages, which, as
you can
tell from yesterday's summary, failed.


It is untested for me but working with a source tarball this should
work in isolation from OBS.

mkdir ~/osc
mkdir ~/osc/my_local_projects
cd ~/osc/my_local_projects
osc importsrcpkg <source rpm> --local-package
cd <package>
osc build --local-package

I read in the manpage that the above says it builds locally. So how
about it giving
the option of producing a shell script that can be run -- since, the
above looks like
you are running the "local build" through a remote osc session -- will
this work
when you are not connected online (for example)? (or if osc is down? or
you have
no working osc connection?)




I do have confidence that if you drop the --local-package options and
assuming you have your OBS account initialized (by logging into OBS
one time) and you have internet access then something like the above
will work except it is more like:

The idea of a local build is so that once you have the sources
downloaded, you
don't have to be on the internet.



You may not like the new workflow, but to argue openSUSE has lost the
ability to build packages locally is simply false. It is just that
opensuse has moved to a new paradigm and you are still using the old
one.

The new system uses rpmbuild as well, I'm told --
So what directory do I 'cd' to and run my rpmbuild command?


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