Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (4626 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] Future of SUSE (at home)
  • From: Tom Patton <thpnalb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:31:23 -0700
  • Message-id: <1168813883.16081.1.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
EXTREMELY well stated, Kevin...

On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 21:49 +0000, Kevin Donnelly wrote:
> On Sunday 14 January 2007 15:15, Jan Elders wrote:XTRE
> > I think HG made a valid point.
> > Look at the various threads in this list from newbies who are desparate and
> > lost how to get for instance their DVD working.
> > Yes, for you (and me) it is quite simple because we know what actions we
> > must take in advance to gets things working ( see analogy with the car),
> > but have you forgotten the first time when you (probably) also had to
> > search and inquire before you had things going ?
> I think one of the problems is that many new users come along and expect to be
> told exactly what to do in their specific situation to solve whatever problem
> they're having. "If Linux is as good as Windows, it must be able to do this
> - I haven't done much googling or reading, but I think you should tell me the
> answer right now." The response may come across as arrogant, but that is
> because the original request may have been a bit arrogant - how many posts
> have there been on this list about codecs (which is why the DVD may not be
> working - see (4) below) over the last 6 months? It might be polite to read
> some of them before asking again.
> New users, please remember:
> (1) You spent a lot of time learning about Microsoft Windows (and swearing at
> it, and reinstalling drivers, and sanitising it, and ...) - you have to
> expect to invest some time in experimentation, finding out what YaST can do,
> etc.
> (2) Why?, you might say. Because you are interested in Linux for a purpose -
> namely, to redress some of the perceived problems with Microsoft Windows.
> Linux is not a "Windows + better security + no-cost software" - it's a lot
> more than that, and it is also a community. Step outside the proprietary box
> you are used to - you may find the first steps disconcerting, but freedom
> opens up better vistas than Vista.
> (3) If you think info is too hard to find, do your bit for others coming after
> you, and write a page on the wiki to document dealing with specific problems
> (of course, if people don't read it - cf (1) above - you may be giving
> "arrogant" answers yourself in a few months ...).
> (4) If you are annoyed with multimedia problems, don't complain here, and
> don't slag off the distro and/or Linux, baecause that is not where the
> problem lies. Instead, write to the manufacturers of every piece of media
> equipment you bought or own, and ask them to provide the option to use open
> formats. Write to your legislators asking them to outlaw consumer lock-in
> via closed formats. This will take too much of your valuable time, you say?
> Not as much time as people have put in trying to create open formats and work
> around closed ones, with users still complaining because the world is as it
> is, and not how they want it to be.
> (5) The first responsibility for free software users is to accept
> responsibility - if proprietary formats are stopping you doing what you
> want, stop using them, make a big fuss about it, try to persuade others not
> to use them, buy only equipment that allows open formats as well (even if it
> costs another $10, and you have to wait a week for it to be delivered), etc.
> Big companies like to peddle the myth that the computer user is a consumer,
> and go on to make an artificial distinction between the users/consumers and
> themselves, the "producers" or "content providers". Proprietary formats are
> a prime tool in this - if you see no problem with them, you will probably
> have difficulty ever adjusting to a non-proprietary world.
> On Sunday 14 January 2007 18:22, Stevens wrote:
> > And therein lies the problem: the "look down your nose" attitude of most
> > Linux nerds about the development of user-friendly tools and GUIs. There
> > are vast numbers of computer owners out there who use M$ because it works
> > for them without requiring much in the way of computer skills and until
> > such time that a Linux distro comes along that offers the same ease of
> > use, Linux will stay in the background.
> My dear man/boy/girl/woman - there are millions of people using Linux "because
> it works for them". Do you think they are all having delusional fantasies?
> No-one is suggesting that you must pass the Eight Levels of Geekiness to be
> allowed to lay your hands on the One True OS - that is your interpretation of
> the need to experiment a bit rather than pressing "OK" (see (1) above).
> The reason why you may need to experiment a bit (choose a different app, a
> different configuration, etc) is because Linux allows you to do a huge number
> of things that you are not allowed to do in proprietary systems, or which
> would be very expensive there. It's a bit like being in a car rather than on
> a train - you can see all that nice countryside from a train, but you can't
> go there ....
> --
> Pob hwyl / Best wishes
> Kevin Donnelly
> - KDE yn Gymraeg
> - Geiriadur rhydd i'r Gymraeg
> - Rhedeg berfau Cymraeg
> - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD

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