Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (2831 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] The state of openSUSE
  • From: Thomas Hertweck <Thomas.Hertweck@xxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:46:41 +0100
  • Message-id: <44BFEBB1.2060900@xxxxxx>

Andreas Hanke wrote:
> [...]
> I don't share this opinion.

Fair enough ;-)

> Managers are not dumb. They know that
> (open)SUSE is perceived as sort of a "test case" for enterprise
> products, and they know that poor (open)SUSE releases put the reputation
> of enterprise products into question.

I don't share this opinion. People are so confused about the names, SUSE
Linux, openSUSE, SUSE Enterprise, etc., that many don't even know that
the SUSE Linux 10.1 from the openSUSE project is the basis for the Linux
Enterprise product from Novell. Insiders, of course, will know. And
hopefully those who have to make the decisions.

> And I actually don't even share the conclusion that Novell doesn't care
> about (open)SUSE stability. Do you remember the endless discussions
> about SUSE 10.1 being shipped with "outdated" KDE and GNOME version
> numbers? These "outdated" releases were chosen because of stability
> concerns.

Sure. The statement should not be generalized. It concerned the change
in software package management in 10.1. Although I would immediately
know of other things that didn't really contribute to the stability of
SUSE Linux in the past.

> I tend to find the discussions about SUSE 10.1 quality rather annoying.
> New installations will get the first and now even the second update
> stack during the initial installation, new user's wont even notice the
> most obvious problems, and the sad experiences early adopters hat cannot
> be undone any more.

Do you really think people won't recognise that an update of repository
data takes about 2 seconds in Ubuntu but 3 min in SUSE Linux, even with
the latest updates installed? Well, I think it matters and people will
recognize it if they compare. And I think that discussing problems with
10.1 is not annoying but helps to ensure that we won't see similar
things in the future. All of this is not meant to upset developers or
SUSE guys, and it's never a personal thing. Covering up problems doesn't
really help.

> Maybe we (the users) should try to be a little bit more forgiving. And
> we shouldn't forget that (open)SUSE is about a lot more than just
> package management. E.g., is there any other free Linux offering out
> there with a better working Xen setup than (open)SUSE? I'm not aware of
> any. with VBA support? Nowhere as good as in (open)SUSE.
> etc...

I partly agree with you. But you should recognise that Xen is not an
essential and central part of SUSE Linux, but the package management is.
I installed 10.1 on one of my PCs and I was not able to come up with a
system that really satisfied all my needs. I don't need stuff like Xgl,
etc., I need my system for work. And I would consider myself as an
experienced end user. I know of other people that made similar
experiences with the installation process. If people buy a box product
from Novell/SUSE, they expect it to function out of the box as intended.
If not, they consider the product as broken. They don't want to wait
four weeks for an update to fix problems that should never have happened
in the first place. They don't want to spend hours and hours to work
around problems.

My emails might sometimes sound a bit pessimistic or negative. I still
believe in SUSE Linux, although 10.1 was a step backward and I was
disappointed about the overall functionality and stability. Hopefully,
10.2 will be two steps forward ;-) Again, this is my personal point of
view and others might have had completely different experiences. Such is


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