Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (2831 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] The state of openSUSE
  • From: Martin Schlander <suse@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:22:22 +0200
  • Message-id: <200607201422.22569.suse@xxxxxxxxxx>
Torsdag 20 juli 2006 11:03 skrev Marcus Meissner:
> On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 07:32:53AM +0100, B.Weber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > Greetings all,
> >
> > I would like to share some of the concerns I have about the state of SUSE
> > Linux / The openSUSE project. I hope this does not come across as a rant
> > as it is not intended as such, but to point out issues in the hope that
> > something may be done about them.
> >
> > The perceived problem : Declining product quality
> >
> > Obviously there is the unfortunate situation of 10.1 where critical flaws
> > were allowed to remain in the final product, making it in my opinion
>
> There was just 1 critical flaw in the development process, the very
> late introduction of the new package management.
>
> What is bad in the rest of the distribution?
>
> > unsuitable for use by people who don't know what they're doing, probably
>
> I dont think so.
>
> > the first version of suse for a very long time for which this applies. I
> > have not heard anything about what steps are being taken to ensure that
> > this will not happen again, which has perhaps lead to the feeling amongst
> > some that this is the sign of things to come.
>
> Even we learn from our mistakes, rest assured.
>
> > In the past 3 or 4 years what has really improved in terms of the value
> > added by SUSE? Every 6 months we get a new set of packages with exactly
> > the same suse additions. Very little has really changed since the 7.x
> > days compared to prior to that point.
>
> Better hardware integration.
> More smoother installation.
> Always delivering the latest and greatest to you.
>
> We work with the upstream community, so most of our work also goes
> to the upstream packages.
>
>
> And the new values for 10.1:
> - Greatly enhanced handling of external package repositories, which was
> only handled step fatherly in older distributions.
> - Better wireless support by Novell/SUSE developed NetworkManager + GUIs.
>
> > Possible causes:
> >
> > 1: Lack of vision / communication
> >
> > What causes the above observations? Is there really no vision of where
> > SUSE Linux / openSUSE should be in 2-3 years time. What tangible
>
> What needs to be done in larger scale work? Linux is at a point where
> there is not much work to do to make it working for everyone.
>
> Having a vision of where to go is difficult for us as "integrators".
>
> Yes, we might need some vision ... And you can help here too.
>
> > 2: Difficulty of community involvement
> >
> > - Communication (Lack of)
> > Without communication of what the long term goals are, people generally
> > have no idea of what they can be working on to help. The google summer
> > of code project suggestions were good, but there is no reason these sort
> > of things should be restricted to google summer of code. Suggestions of
> > projects that could be taken on by community members would be helpful.
>
> We try to communicate, see our biweekly meetings, our presence here,
> our talks at various conferences.
>
> > - Documentation (Lack of)
> > It is difficult for people to work on things useful for SUSE if SUSE
> > specific things are undocumented. Not everyone has time to read reams of
> > code to determine how to use something. An example: libzypp - wonderful
> > (apparently) new library for package management related stuff. Is there
> > any api documentation beyond the automatically generated docs in the
> > -devel package? No. Is there any documentation about what it actually
> > does? No. Is there any documentation for packagers etc wishing to make
> > use of new features like add on products? No.
>
> Wrong, for the overview what it does at least:
> http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp
>
> The regular user really would not care about it, since the tools drive it
> forward.
>
> > Solutions:
> >
> > - Communicate the long term strategies to the community. If they really
> > do not exist then leverage the community in deciding upon some.
>
> We are listening to you. :)
>
> Ciao, Marcus
>
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