Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3337 mails)

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Re: [opensuse] official Novell translation team
  • From: "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 02:11:09 +0200 (CEST)
  • Message-id: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0604070005520.8061@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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The Thursday 2006-04-06 at 21:07 +0200, jdd wrote:

> > Yes, I've been there... but I get lost. I haven't seen a simple manual on
> > how to translate a man/info page.
>
> there is nothing I know about "translating". May be we
> should enhance the translator page
> (http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Translation_Guide)

That one is about translating the wiki, I think. I was simply interested
in translating man pages of programs, so that we can send people to "rtfm"
in our language ;-)


> What to get, what to install, what
> > program to use.
>
> If you mean translating for the wiki, there is no program
> needed. The wiki use an editbox in your browser.
>
> If you mean translating for SUSE/Novell manuals, AFAIK
> Novell uses docbook with a particular DTD

No, they have their own team, and they do it very well. The SuSE admin
book in Spanish is very good.

>
> And of course, if it means learning a new language like
> > latex or docbook or similar, forget it: I want a gui.
>
> I know none really usable. most docbook users I know of uses
> Vi or emacs :-).

I know... I have helped to translate documentation in docbook using emacs.
It meant that to see the result we had to ask somebody else to "compile"
the document to pdf or something, waiting a day or two for that. If we
made a syntax error, that person had to correct it, for a language he
could not read. Cumbersome.

>
> 2 years ago I advocate your position: we want a GUI. however
> my work now is not on the same side and I have less use of
> it. I have a HOWTO (Partition Rescue) but it have few to
> change and will probably be incorporated in an other doc.
>
> OpenOffice have at least a partial export to docbook/xml,
> but it used to be be quite hard to install and I didn't try
> it recently (just seen it in the install options).

Never tried it; I had no idea.

>
> Minimum is Lyx, out
> > of the box, and "SuSEsified" (LyX has never worked for me out of the box).
>
> LyX always worked right out of the box for me. If you plan
> to use it for the Linuxdoc project, the best way is to use
> linuxdoc. This sgml language is very simple with the only
> drawback to have no image inclusion. LyX is quite pleasant
> if you don't wan to exchange format with openoffice :-)

I tried again right now; I fired up LyX, selected "new from template" ->
"linuxdoc_article" and got this error:

] Textclass error
]
] The document uses a missing Tex class "linuxdoc".
] LyX will not be able to produce output.
] OK


See? It doesn't work.

Thinking... ah, I have "sgmltools-lite" installed, but not "sgmltool". I
remember I had to do that previously to get something or other working;

I'll try the other way round now.

[...]

The template loads...
... but "view PDF" fails:

cer@nimrodel:~> step: Counter does not exist: sect
Processing file newfile1.sgml
/usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:1:2:E: unknown declaration type "doctype"
/usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:3:0:E: prolog can't be omitted unless CONCUR NO
and LINK EXPLICIT NO and either IMPLYDEF ELEMENT YES or IMPLYDEF DOCTYPE YES
/usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:3:0:E: no document type declaration; will parse without validation
/usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:28:9:E: end tag for "sect" omitted, but OMITTAG NO was specified
/usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:22:0: start tag was here
/usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:28:9:E: end tag for "toc" omitted, but OMITTAG NO was specified
/usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:21:0: start tag was here
/usr/bin/sgmlsasp: can't open
`/usr/lib/sgml-tools/dist/article/latex2e/mapping': No such file or directory
This is pdfeTeX, Version 3.141592-1.21a-2.2 (Web2C 7.5.4) entering extended mode
LaTeX2e <2003/12/01>
Babel <v3.8d> and hyphenation patterns for american, french, german, ngerman, b
ahasa, basque, bulgarian, catalan, croatian, czech, danish, dutch, esperanto, e
stonian, finnish, greek, icelandic, irish, italian, latin, magyar, norsk, polis
h, portuges, romanian, russian, serbian, slovak, slovene, spanish, swedish, tur
kish, ukrainian, nohyphenation, loaded.

(./newfile1.tex)
! Emergency stop.
<*> \nonstopmode\input{newfile1.tex}

No pages of output.
Transcript written on newfile1.log.
This is dvips(k) 5.95a Copyright 2005 Radical Eye Software
(www.radicaleye.com)
dvips: ! DVI file can't be opened.



Impossible. There are two other menu entries to "view PDF output": the
second one also fails, the third crashes LyX. The html output is empty.
dvi, nothing. As I said, LyX has never worked for me out of the box - in
fact, I'm not sure I even got it to work.

How can it work, if the first error is «unknown declaration type
"doctype"»? Has somebody tried the SuSE version of LyX before committing
it to dvd? It doesn't work!

I'm sorry, this has been a years long frustration to me. I like LyX idea,
but it simply doesn't work. :-/


And for producing "info pages" or "man pages", I don't even see a menu
entry in LyX for it, so I don't see how I could use it to translate man
pages.


> It has the LaTeX way of dealing with images, you can like it
> or not, but it works. html export (with Hevea, for example)
> is very good and it's indexing capability gorgious :-)
>
> You can do with it hundred pages document I won't try to do
> with openoffice.

The idea is nice... but once I write the document, I can't produce pdf or
html or dvi with it, so it is useless.


> > I only find info on how to subscribe to several work lists... but not
> > direct info on how to do a translation: first I have to know how it is
> > done, see samples, before committing myself.
>
> I'm spending much time translating, with a very simple way
> of life: I copy the original text (english) to the target
> page, type the translation in front of the english text and
> delete the english part when the sentence is translated.

That's what I do. Or did, with the only docbook text I tried. But
sometimes we got into syntax error, and as the only person that knew the
docbook thing disappeared of the net (the original language author), the
translation project sunk. Even if we finished our part, we can't
publish. Very frustrating.

For a man page, I don't even know how the "source text" looks, and how
to compile it. I think that Novell people could help producing some
kind of workable environment or whatever so that people that
"could"translate "can" really translate. I can't. No tools.


Now I'm translating the messages a certain program produces. It is easy,
with kbabel: I don't need to really know how it works. I have the English
text in one window, the Spanish I'm creating in another. A button
somewhere checks syntax and tells me what is wrong.. Once finished I'll
send it to the developers, and done and happy.

Easy.


> I don't try to stay near the original text, but to be near
> the original meaning of the text. I very rarely use a
> dictionnary, altough I need sometime one. In fact I have two
> ones, a very small (mainly for orthograph reference) and a
> big (4 large volumes) for dealing with words with several
> meanings. A synonyms dictionnary is nice.

I use "jdictionary" (java) and dict, my own glossary, and some other bits
and ends. Not very helpful, really. Once I looked at a specialized paper
dictionary, and it was way, way expensive. Perhaps there are good online
translating dictionaries: now that I have an adsl connection, I can use
them - if i find them, of course ;-)

Translating programs has the added difficulty of syntax (%s and such), not
much context to guess meanings, and short sentences sometimes.

>
> Notice that I translate from english to my native langage
> (french), I write in english, but no well enough to make
> translation.

I think can write in English or Spanish; translating from either one to
the other I find rather difficult: It is a different skill.

Of course, if I write in English it can be noticed that it is not my first
language, but it is not bad :-)

- --
Cheers,
Carlos Robinson
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