Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-marketing (277 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-marketing] feedback on news
  • From: Jos Poortvliet <jospoortvliet@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 21:43:28 +0200
  • Message-id: <201010282143.31395.jospoortvliet@xxxxxxxxx>
On 2010-10-28 Satoru wrote:
Hi Jos,

first of all, I appreciate your feedback on *OUR* Weekly News. What we
really have to fear is neither proprietary software nor competitor, but
a lack of interest. ;-)

Agreed ;-)

(2010/10/28 7:37), Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Hi all,

A while ago there was a blog by Nelson on LibreOffice. I had a quick look
and thought 'Ok so you don't get the dynamics of Free Software huh'* but
didn't think about it otherwise.

Then the blog was selected as one of the articles in the Weekly News, put
together by the hard work of Sascha and his team. Which tickled of some
rough feathers at the LibreOffice camp - as you can imagine after
reading the blog. There was a link to an article putting down the
LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) - in an 'official' openSUSE news
article!

So, I don't really want to discuss the blogpost itself - it's the
personal vision of Nelson and I get the point he was trying to get
across).

Even if his critisism was completely founded and sensible, the question I
have is: should it have been in the Weekly news? That is actually
something Nelson can surely comment upon: does it make sense, from a
marketing perspective, to put your 'dirty laundry' (internal discussions
and critisism) out to the world if you don't have too?

Frankly, I have had this discussion in KDE as well - some argued that
even on Planet KDE, critisism did not belong. Planet, as they saw it,
was a communicationchannel OUTWARDS. If you had critique, say it on a
mailinglist or in private, use planet for positive comments. I disagreed
with that - imho planet is for community discussion and personal views,
hence should be open for critisism.

But for something like the weekly news, I think it might make sense for
the team doing it to think about what their purpose is - yes, informing
the community. But those part of it or very close most likely do follow
the planet. The weekly news is most likely read by users further away
from the project and journalists and such - who don't have to be
bothered by infighting or bad news ;-)

Yes, I am saying the Weekly News is a great marketing asset - and hence
should be treated as such.

Comments? As usual, feel free to disagree and fall all over me now - but
please end it with a hug :D

From one of the editors point of view, it is not so easy to determine
whether an article is appropriate for our Weekly News or not. In other
words, whether an article is just a neutral report on what's going on or
authors opinion isn't sometimes quite clear. And, the borderline between
constructive opinions and offensive criticisms is often vague.

Oh absolutely. That is also why I send this mail - to try and let us figure
out those lines a bit more clearly. It will never be completely clear - but
having a goal in mind (like informing community members what is going on in
openSUSE; or marketing openSUSE to users and visitors to the site) can help in
the decision making.

Please note that what I am trying to say is not that you guys made a wrong
choice. It simply depends on what you think the Weekly news is for, what the
goal is. And as you guys are making it, that is very much your decision. If
you want to inform the community about what is going on, then something like
Nelson's blog might belong in there. If you want to be a marketing tool, then
it doesn't. As I don't think that choice has been made you have done nothing
wrong ;-)

In our 'Guiding Principles',
http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles
there's a mention:

"We value...
[...]
... respect for other persons and their contributions, for other
opinions and beliefs. (...)"

Everyone has his/her own opinion. When there's a topic, there always
are various opinions and thoughts on that - pros and cons, positive and
negative. If a opinion is constructive from one's point of view, it
might be ridiculous from others' point of view. And according to our
'Kick Ass!' rule, everyone can add articles which (s)he find worthy
enough to introduce to Weekly News during editing phase. So the question
is, who can judge whether each entry is good for our Weekly News or not,
and how? Should we reject all the articles which include authors
criticism no matter how that is constructive or negative?

Yep. So if we want to inform our community critisism belongs in there...

The solution might be having an 'editorial meeting' for each issue. But
I'm sorry to inform you the current state of Weekly News team. :-(

ATM, most of the articles on Weekly News except 'openSUSE Forums' and
'Events' (thanks, Carl and Okuro!) are selected by Sascha and me. And
yes, we pick up many articles which are aggregated on Planet openSUSE.
Usually, we have a 'proofreading session' for each issue after the draft
edition is completed. The more proofreaders we have, the more polished
Weekly News will be - but right now, we have only one proofreader (me).

And let me explain the situation of Issue 146.

Since Sascha attended openSUSE Conference and didn't have enough time to
edit, most of the articles on Issue 146 are selected by me and we
couldn't have a proofreading session for that. However, even if we could
have a proofreading session, whether the Nelson's blog post is
appropriate for our Weekly News or not is another question.

We - mostly Sascha and me - have tried to have team meetings to improve
Weekly News again and again. But on most of the meetings, there usually
were only Sascha and me... :-(

Again: 'What we really have to fear is a lack of interest.'

The more you'll participate and help editing Weekly News, the better the
Weekly News will be.

You guys do this on sunday? I might have time to help out, yes. Another thing
we can and probably should do is add a message on top of the weekly news like
"we're looking for volunteers to help out', maybe do a special request every
now and then. I have no idea how you guys are working but I bet it ain't that
complicated, right? If it isn't then we should tell that to people - we might
find a few crazy like us and willing to help :D

* so the blog was about the marketing side of the fork. Sure. Still, it
was a bit clueless - indeed, from a marketing point it's not smart to
create two projects - from the Free Software dynamics pov it's the best
thing that has happened to OpenOffice in years and it should've happened
years ago... Marketing is clearly secondairy here. And yes, I imagine it
would be fun to see the marketing battle. From a FOSS perspective - I
just hope it won't take LibreOffice long to win.

Link to the blog in question:
http://nmarques.digitalwhores.net/2010/10/18/openoffice-org-and-libre-off
ice/

I have another doubt on 'OpenOffice.org vs LibreOffice' issue in
openSUSE project.

I myself have heard many times from one of the developers of Go-OO about
the negative effect of bureaucratism OpenOffice.org project has.
Therefore I want to support The Document Foundation and won't oppose to
adopt LibreOffice as a default office suite for openSUSE distribution
instead of Oracle's OOo - I'm already using LibreOffice now ;-).

However, when and who decided that openSUSE will adopt LibreOffice
instead of Oracle's OOo? Is this issue openly discussed somewhere and I
missed it?

On 15. October, Petr Mladek announced 'We are going to switch from the
OpenOffice.org to the LibreOffice code base on openSUSE.'
http://lizards.opensuse.org/2010/10/15/libreoffice-3_2_99_2/

Although the feature request '#310686: Include LibreOffice Productivity
Suite' was posted to openFATE on 8 October,
https://features.opensuse.org/310686
I don't think there have been enough discussions on this feature.

Well it is the choice of the people who maintain OpenOffice - if they want to
swicht to LibreOffice, that's their thing. We can give our opion and such but
I strongly believe in 'who does the work decides'. So unless they find it a
hard choice and ask for input on -project I wouldn't comment on it.

Which doesn't mean you can't - if you have a strong opinion on this and
arguments for keeping OpenOffice instead of LibreOffice, well, go ahead and
talk to them on the mailinglist they work on most (not sure there is one) or
on -project (be sure to CC them so they don't miss it).

Jos wrote:
(...) the LibreOffice efforts (part of openSUSE!) (...)

but as you can read the comment on Petr's announcement, there certainly
are contributors of original OOo in openSUSE community!

As I mentioned above, I myself want to support TDF and LibreOffice, but
as one of the editors of Weekly News, I want to be as neutral as
possible. ;-)

Best,


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