[opensuse] Display oddity when upgrading from 10.0 to 10.3
Hello, everyone. I am writing using my wife's account on the SuSE list. I recently upgraded my desktop from 10.0 to 10.3 (clean install). Now when I view images (for example, a powerpoint slide, or a .jpg) what previously had displayed as a perfect rectangular landscape image instead shows as almost a square (and in some cases actually is a square). The page size setting in Powerpoint is correctly set at the default and I confirmed that it is the same as on another computer (SuSE 10.0) that displays properly, so that's not the problem. I have looked everywhere in Powerpoint and in Gwenview for a setting (e.g., aspect ratio) that might be off but have not found anything that changes the aspect ratio or any other setting so that what is now appearing as a square or nearly a square will instead display as a proper rectangle. I also looked at various images on my 10.0 laptop which displays properly and copied those images to the 10.3 desktop. When viewed on the desktop the image (e.g., a screen shot) is squished. :o( Any ideas on how to get this 10.3 pooter to display images correctly? Many thanks for your wise suggestions. Gil (husband of j -- the blonde 1) -- j I'm out of my mind - but feel free to leave a message .... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 31. Dezember 2007 schrieb jfweber@gilweber.com:
[...] Any ideas on how to get this 10.3 pooter to display images correctly? [...]
At first, you should compare the X screen resolution of your two installations: jan@karl:~> xdpyinfo | grep resolution resolution: 129x126 dots per inch I guess that they do not match. If so, check which of your X servers (10.0 or 10.3) uses the right monitor dimensions: jan@karl:~> xdpyinfo | grep dimensions dimensions: 1680x1050 pixels (331x212 millimeters) Then we will see whether your 10.0 is right, or your 10.3. :) HTH Jan -- Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon December 31 2007, Jan Ritzerfeld scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
Am Montag, 31. Dezember 2007 schrieb jfweber@gilweber.com:
[...] Any ideas on how to get this 10.3 pooter to display images correctly? [...]
At first, you should compare the X screen resolution of your two installations: jan@karl:~> xdpyinfo | grep resolution resolution: 129x126 dots per inch
I guess that they do not match. If so, check which of your X servers (10.0 or 10.3) uses the right monitor dimensions: jan@karl:~> xdpyinfo | grep dimensions dimensions: 1680x1050 pixels (331x212 millimeters)
Then we will see whether your 10.0 is right, or your 10.3. :)
HTH Jan
Jan, thanks for the reply. Before giving you the results let me clarify a couple of points. 1) Before the upgrade to 10.3 (when both the desktop and laptop were 10.0) images looked the same on both. I could build a powerpoint presentation on the desktop and it looked the same on the laptop. Pictures looked the same. So prior to the upgrade everything was great. 2) Ignore the laptop for a moment. Powerpoint presentations and .jpgs that were on the desktop computer (10.0) prior to the upgrade now look wrong on the upgraded desktop (10.3). So images that previously looked landscape rectangular on the desktop now look square. I only mentioned the laptop as a note of comparison between a 10.0 set up that seems to work properly and a 10.3 set up that does not. That said, here's the information you requested: For the 10.3 desktop being viewed on a 20" Viewsonic 20 monitor: xdpyinfo | grep resolution 80X64 dots per inch xdpyinfo | grep dimensions 1280X768 pixels 406X305 mm And for the 10.0 LinuxCertified laptop xdpyinfo | grep resolution 86X84 dots per inch xdpyinfo | grep dimensions 1024X768 pixels 302X232 mm Note: the resolution on the laptop cannot be increased. It is at its limit. Thanks! Gil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2007/12/31 20:20 (GMT-0500) jfweber@gilweber.com apparently typed:
1) Before the upgrade to 10.3 (when both the desktop and laptop were 10.0) images looked the same on both. I could build a powerpoint presentation on the desktop and it looked the same on the laptop. Pictures looked the same. So prior to the upgrade everything was great.
2) Ignore the laptop for a moment. Powerpoint presentations and .jpgs that were on the desktop computer (10.0) prior to the upgrade now look wrong on the upgraded desktop (10.3). So images that previously looked landscape rectangular on the desktop now look square.
I only mentioned the laptop as a note of comparison between a 10.0 set up that seems to work properly and a 10.3 set up that does not.
There are many hardware configurations in 10.3 that are tricky to get right. This was quite uncommonly a problem in 10.0. Usually YaST installer got it right and there was nothing left for a user to do, infrequently not the case in 10.3.
That said, here's the information you requested:
For the 10.3 desktop being viewed on a 20" Viewsonic 20 monitor:
That particular model doesn't seem to exist on http://www.viewsonic.com/ . Is it a CRT?
xdpyinfo | grep resolution 80X64 dots per inch
My 20" Viewsonic http://www.viewsonic.com/products/lcddisplays/graphicseries/vg2021m/ is 1400x1050 and 87.5 x 87.5 DPI. A 20" at 1280x1024 should be about 82 X 82; at 1600x1200 about 100 X 100. 80 X 64 can be expected to squish objects narrower than their natural aspect.
xdpyinfo | grep dimensions 1280X768 pixels 406X305 mm
Those are incompatible, so something's radically messed up somewhere. 1280x768 doesn't compute to any standard aspect ratio, while 406 X 305 indicates a standard 4:3 ratio. IIRC some LCD TVs use 1280x768, but most TVs & PC displays you'll find somewhere in the table on http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/displays.html
And for the 10.0 LinuxCertified laptop
xdpyinfo | grep resolution 86X84 dots per inch
So this laptop has about a 15" screen?
xdpyinfo | grep dimensions 1024X768 pixels 302X232 mm
1024 X 768 is the most common PC display resolution, but 302 X 232 isn't quite a standard 4:3 aspect ratio, nor even close to any 16:10 resolution.
Note: the resolution on the laptop cannot be increased. It is at its limit.
So the laptop is an XGA model (1024x768 native resolution)? Most newer stuff is widescreen and starts at 1280 X 800 (WXGA). What gfxcards chips are in these systems? Take a read of http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fonts-linux-about.html if you have some time to kill waiting. -- Jesus Christ, the reason for the season. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Felix, many thanks for your response. Here is additional information based on your comments. Gil On Mon December 31 2007, Felix Miata scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
There are many hardware configurations in 10.3 that are tricky to get right. This was quite uncommonly a problem in 10.0. Usually YaST installer got it right and there was nothing left for a user to do, infrequently not the case in 10.3.
For the 10.3 desktop being viewed on a 20" Viewsonic 20 monitor:
That particular model doesn't seem to exist on http://www.viewsonic.com/ . Is it a CRT?
Yes. It is old -- manufactured in 1993 -- but still working like new. This display problem seemingly(??) associated with the upgrade to 10.3 is the only thing that's not been perfect in more than 14 years of use.
xdpyinfo | grep resolution 80X64 dots per inch
My 20" Viewsonic http://www.viewsonic.com/products/lcddisplays/graphicseries/vg2021m/ is 1400x1050 and 87.5 x 87.5 DPI. A 20" at 1280x1024 should be about 82 X 82; at 1600x1200 about 100 X 100. 80 X 64 can be expected to squish objects narrower than their natural aspect.
xdpyinfo | grep dimensions 1280X768 pixels 406X305 mm
Those are incompatible, so something's radically messed up somewhere. 1280x768 doesn't compute to any standard aspect ratio, while 406 X 305 indicates a standard 4:3 ratio. IIRC some LCD TVs use 1280x768, but most TVs & PC displays you'll find somewhere in the table on http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/displays.html
The desktop monitor is a standard 4:3 aspect ratio. This morning I have been trying different resolution settings to see if it makes any difference. Nothing has helped, and the 80X64 dots/inch disparity has remained consistent despite the changes. FYI here are the results. #1 1152X864 (XGA) 80X64 dots/inch 1280X768 pixels, 406X305 mm #2 1400X1050 (SXGA+) 86X64 dots/inch 1368X768 pixels, 406X305 mm #3 1024X768 (XGA) 80X64 dots/inch 1280X768 pixels, 406X305 mm In all of these configurations my rectangular images (powerpoints, .jpgs, etc). are squished into squares.
And for the 10.0 LinuxCertified laptop
xdpyinfo | grep resolution 86X84 dots per inch
So this laptop has about a 15" screen?
Yes.
xdpyinfo | grep dimensions 1024X768 pixels 302X232 mm
1024 X 768 is the most common PC display resolution, but 302 X 232 isn't quite a standard 4:3 aspect ratio, nor even close to any 16:10 resolution.
The configuration screen says 5:4 aspect ratio. That is how I received the laptop from the vendor. Please also note again that I am not having any display problems with the laptop. It is only with the desktop just upgraded from 10.0 to 10.3.
Note: the resolution on the laptop cannot be increased. It is at its limit.
So the laptop is an XGA model (1024x768 native resolution)? Most newer stuff is widescreen and starts at 1280 X 800 (WXGA).
Not a widescreen. The vendor (Linux Certified) tells me that this resolution 1024X768 is as high as it will go.
What gfxcards chips are in these systems?
In the desktop it's an onboard chip -- Intel i845. Here's something else that might be relevant and be indicative of the problem. Sax2 does not run properly when configuring the graphics settings on the desktop. Has not run properly since SuSE 9.3. When I change the resolution I get the prompt message that it is best to test the new configuration. When I go to do this the screen comes up where you are supposed to be able to adjust the screen position (up/down/left/right) and also expand/contract side to side and top to bottom. However, none of those buttons have any effect. In addition, the countdown timer in the upper left hand corner does not countdown properly. One of two things happens: a) the countdown timer stays stuck at 30 and never changes or, b) it starts to countdown but goes crazy. It displays: 30, 29, 28, 30, 29, 28, 27, 30, etc. Goes into what seems to be an endless loop that keeps going back to 30 and starting over. I can only save the setting and exit SAX2 without completing the test. Note than when I had 9.3 on this pooter the SAX2 testing did work perfectly, but has not with 10.0 and now again with 10.3. Hope this new information may give you a clue to the source of my problem and a solution. Gil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 1. Januar 2008 schrieb jfweber@gilweber.com:
[...] The desktop monitor is a standard 4:3 aspect ratio. This morning I have been trying different resolution settings to see if it makes any difference. Nothing has helped, and the 80X64 dots/inch disparity has remained consistent despite the changes. FYI here are the results.
#1 1152X864 (XGA) 80X64 dots/inch 1280X768 pixels, 406X305 mm
#2 1400X1050 (SXGA+) 86X64 dots/inch 1368X768 pixels, 406X305 mm
#3 1024X768 (XGA) 80X64 dots/inch 1280X768 pixels, 406X305 mm
In all of these configurations my rectangular images (powerpoints, .jpgs, etc). are squished into squares. [...]
Please have a look at the actual dimensions: They hardly change! And they do never match the resolution you have tried to set up. For me, this looks like bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=257746 Can you check which driver you are using for your i845? Just paste the output from "hwinfo --gfxcard" as root. If you are using the new intel driver, please consult the 10.3 release notes: | [...] | The intel driver is still not as stable as i810; use "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" | to switch back to i810, if you encounter problems that did not occur | previously with the i810 driver. In those cases, consider to open a bug | report against the intel driver. http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#13 HTH Jan -- It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue January 1 2008, Jan Ritzerfeld scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer: (snips)
Please have a look at the actual dimensions: They hardly change! And they do never match the resolution you have tried to set up. For me, this looks like bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=257746
Can you check which driver you are using for your i845? Just paste the output from "hwinfo --gfxcard" as root.
Jan, here is the output you requested. The release notes seem to indicate that the intel driver is installed by default in 10.3. However, I changed nothing yet it appears that I am using the i810_smbus driver! gil@phred:~> su Password: phred:/home/gil # hwinfo --gfxcard 12: PCI 02.0: 0300 VGA compatible controller (VGA) [Created at pci.301] UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_8086_2562 Unique ID: _Znp.DBsAKLI2lO9 SysFS ID: /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:02.0 SysFS BusID: 0000:00:02.0 Hardware Class: graphics card Model: "Trigem i845" Vendor: pci 0x8086 "Intel Corporation" Device: pci 0x2562 "i845" SubVendor: pci 0x109f "Trigem Computer Inc." SubDevice: pci 0x3186 Revision: 0x03 Driver: "i810_smbus" Driver Modules: "i2c_i810" Memory Range: 0xf0000000-0xf7ffffff (rw,prefetchable) Memory Range: 0xe8000000-0xe807ffff (rw,non-prefetchable) IRQ: 11 (no events) I/O Ports: 0x3c0-0x3df (rw) Module Alias: "pci:v00008086d00002562sv0000109Fsd00003186bc03sc00i00" Driver Info #0: XFree86 v4 Server Module: intel Driver Info #1: XFree86 v4 Server Module: intel 3D Support: yes Extensions: dri Config Status: cfg=no, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown Primary display adapter: #12 phred:/home/gil #
If you are using the new intel driver, please consult the 10.3 release notes: | [...] | The intel driver is still not as stable as i810; use "sax2 -r -m | 0=i810" to switch back to i810, if you encounter problems that did | not occur previously with the i810 driver. In those cases, consider | to open a bug report against the intel driver. http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html #13
So if I am already using the more stable i810 driver do I want to try that less stable intel driver anyway? If yes, the release notes say to enter "sax2 -r" (I assume as root) to change to the intel driver. Is there an easy way to tell if this driver has made a good change without going through a whole bunch of reconfigurations to various resolutions? If the intel driver is better should the dots per inch be closer to 80X80 at any resolution? Now, if changing to the intel driver does not help then the release notes say to enter "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" to change back to the i810 driver. I assume (??) doing this will bring me back to where I started and I should not be in any worse shape than when I began this process. Correct? Thanks! :o) Gil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 1. Januar 2008 schrieb jfweber@gilweber.com:
[...] Jan, here is the output you requested. The release notes seem to indicate that the intel driver is installed by default in 10.3.
Yep.
However, I changed nothing yet it appears that I am using the i810_smbus driver!
Nope! See:
Driver Info #0: XFree86 v4 Server Module: intel Driver Info #1: XFree86 v4 Server Module: intel
[obsolete worries about changing to the already used intel driver]
Since you use the newer, less stable intel driver, try "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" as root to actually change from the intel driver to the older, more stable driver.
Now, if changing to the intel driver does not help then the release notes say to enter "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" to change back to the i810 driver.
Execute the simple "sax -r" to revert to the currently used intel driver.
I assume (??) doing this will bring me back to where I started and I should not be in any worse shape than when I began this process. Correct?
"sax -r" should bring you back to your current situation. However, backing up your /etc/X11/xorg.conf before any sax execution should not hurt, since I cannot guarantee success.
Thanks! :o)
You are welcome. Jan -- You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Your basic problem is something causing bad DPI values. That's highly likely in part due to lack of EDID and DDC in your old Viewsonic, but it's coupled with the age of your i845G, and the buggy Xorg and video drivers in 10.3. Because your screen, regardless of any traditional resolution you choose other than 1280x1024, is 4:3, both reported DPI numbers should either match exactly, or differ by no more than 2. Note that currently there's more than one basis and report of DPI. Ultimately, all need to match for everything in X to work right. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2007-October/126426.html First try following the instructions here: http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#13 If that doesn't do it, first check for a motherboard BIOS upgrade (as it includes your video BIOS), as that helped on my i854G box. Likely that won't help, but it might. If not, then read this: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=331609 . If you can't figure out what to do from that, take a further look at DPI generally starting with the links at http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fonts-linux-about.html , then report back with the content of /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log for further help. -- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Thanks again, Felix, for your comments. Gil On Tue January 1 2008, Felix Miata scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
Your basic problem is something causing bad DPI values. That's highly likely in part due to lack of EDID and DDC in your old Viewsonic, but it's coupled with the age of your i845G, and the buggy Xorg and video drivers in 10.3. Because your screen, regardless of any traditional resolution you choose other than 1280x1024, is 4:3, both reported DPI numbers should either match exactly, or differ by no more than 2. Note that currently there's more than one basis and report of DPI. Ultimately, all need to match for everything in X to work right. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2007-October/126426.ht ml
OK, read through this, but it's really at a level far above my understanding of computers.
First try following the instructions here: http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html #13
This is the same URL Jan pointed me to in previous e-mail. In my earlier response I noted that the driver shown in the output of "hwinfo --gfxcard" is i810_smbus. However, see below for what seems to be a different output notation for the driver.
If that doesn't do it, first check for a motherboard BIOS upgrade (as it includes your video BIOS), as that helped on my i854G box. Likely that won't help, but it might.
I'll have to check with e-Machines. Seems to me that I tried to get an upgraded for the BIOS a couple of years ago and was told that there was not one. I'll call them tomorrow to find out.
If not, then read this: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=331609 . If you can't figure out what to do from that, take a further look at DPI generally starting with the links at http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fonts-linux-about.html,
Read through these and, again, they're just way over my head. I am definitely not a sophisticated user. ;o)
then report back with the content of /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log for further help.
OK, first here is the output of /etc/X11/xorg.conf. Under the
section "device" it shows the driver as "intel." That's not the same as
the "i810_smbus" driver indicated in "hwinfo --gfxcard." Is this
contradictory or am I the one that's confused?
# /.../
# SaX generated X11 config file
# Created on: 2008-01-01T11:27:13-0500.
#
# Version: 8.1
# Contact: Marcus Schaefer
On 2008/01/01 16:04 (GMT-0500) jfweber@gilweber.com apparently typed:
First try following the instructions here: http://www.suse.com/relnotes/i386/openSUSE/10.3/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html#13
This is the same URL Jan pointed me to in previous e-mail. In my earlier response I noted that the driver shown in the output of "hwinfo --gfxcard" is i810_smbus.
The answer is in xorg.conf:
Section "Device" ... Driver "intel"
That's the driver used, the expected result of the instructions at the above URL you've apparently yet to finish. You have to try the i810 driver first before we can progress. None of what I wrote following that direction is relevant until such time as both intel and i810 fail, if indeed both fail. i810_smbus is probably a sub-driver within the intel driver. There is only one "intel driver", while there are a lot of intel chipsets that single "driver" is designed to drive.
As for the output of /var/log/Xorg.0.log: It's more than 2300 lines.
The best thing with stuff like this is to upload it to your personal web space and include the URL thereto in your reply. If you have no personal web space http://pastebin.com/ or something similar will do. Either way, we're not ready for it yet. Try i810 driver and BIOS upgrade first. Consider 10.2 and 11.0alpha or Factory as ultimate alternatives. Getting Intel video configured in 10.3 can be a serious pain. http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2007-10/msg04251.html -- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue January 1 2008, Felix Miata scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer: (snip)
The answer is in xorg.conf:
Section "Device"
...
Driver "intel"
That's the driver used, the expected result of the instructions at the above URL you've apparently yet to finish. You have to try the i810 driver first before we can progress. None of what I wrote following that direction is relevant until such time as both intel and i810 fail, if indeed both fail.
i810_smbus is probably a sub-driver within the intel driver. There is only one "intel driver", while there are a lot of intel chipsets that single "driver" is designed to drive.
(remainder snipped) Felix and Jan, Well I had a disaster. :o( I tried changing from the intel driver to the i810 by using the command as suggested (as root): "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" A couple of lines of text appeared in the shell (console) and suddenly the screen went black. A few seconds later it started rolling upwards uncontrollably. Then the picture fell apart completely and all I had was streaks of color across the screen and intermittent scintillation. I did not know what to do so I tried control/alt/backspace but that just got me back the same streaks of color. I powered down the pooter and powered back up but still the same problem. Tried to use the DVD hoping to repair the driver but could not get that to work. Eventually gave up out of total frustration. Decided to reinstall 10.3. Did the reinstall and reconfigured the monitor. This time I set the diagonal size to 19" (I measured the screen size and found that it was not really a 20"). Set the resolution to 1152X864 (XGA). That gave me 76X67 DPI which while not right was at least better than before when I was getting 80X64 DPI. Output also gave me 1152X768 pixels and 386X290 mm. Now when I look at rectangular powerpoint slides and .jpgs they're still squished, but not as much as before. When I checked the pages suggested by Felix the 1" black bar he shows for measurement is about 1 1/4", and the various boxes he shows are not the same size horizontally and vertically, so my monitor and video chip are still not happy working together. But given the problem I had trying to switch video drivers I am now very reluctant to try again. I think I'll just live with the slightly squished images until a new driver comes out that is not buggy. Maybe I just had bad luck, and trying "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" again would work out OK, but I'm just not that brave. :o) So many thanks for your help. Sorry that I could not test your theories to find whether both drivers were problematic. Gil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
jfweber@gilweber.com pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
On Tue January 1 2008, Felix Miata scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
(snip)
The answer is in xorg.conf:
Section "Device" ...
Driver "intel" That's the driver used, the expected result of the instructions at the above URL you've apparently yet to finish. You have to try the i810 driver first before we can progress. None of what I wrote following that direction is relevant until such time as both intel and i810 fail, if indeed both fail.
i810_smbus is probably a sub-driver within the intel driver. There is only one "intel driver", while there are a lot of intel chipsets that single "driver" is designed to drive.
(remainder snipped)
Felix and Jan,
Well I had a disaster. :o(
I tried changing from the intel driver to the i810 by using the command as suggested (as root): "sax2 -r -m 0=i810"
A couple of lines of text appeared in the shell (console) and suddenly the screen went black. A few seconds later it started rolling upwards uncontrollably. Then the picture fell apart completely and all I had was streaks of color across the screen and intermittent scintillation.
I did not know what to do so I tried control/alt/backspace but that just got me back the same streaks of color. I powered down the pooter and powered back up but still the same problem.
At this point you probably could have used ctrl-alt-f1 to get to the console screen and used "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" again to configure YMMV. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed January 2 2008, Ken Schneider scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
jfweber@gilweber.com pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
(snip)
I did not know what to do so I tried control/alt/backspace but that just got me back the same streaks of color. I powered down the pooter and powered back up but still the same problem.
At this point you probably could have used ctrl-alt-f1 to get to the console screen and used "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" again to configure YMMV.
-- Ken Schneider
Thanks, Ken. I did not know this trick. I'll keep this on file -- hopefully never to be needed but, just in case... :o) Gil I'm out of my mind - but feel free to leave a message .... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/01/02 20:00 (GMT-0500) jfweber@gilweber.com apparently typed:
On Wed January 2 2008, Ken Schneider wrote:
jfweber@gilweber.com pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
I did not know what to do so I tried control/alt/backspace but that just got me back the same streaks of color. I powered down the pooter and powered back up but still the same problem.
At this point you probably could have used ctrl-alt-f1 to get to the console screen and used "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" again to configure YMMV.
Thanks, Ken. I did not know this trick. I'll keep this on file -- hopefully never to be needed but, just in case... :o)
I don't believe it's a trick, but rather an undocumented law. By running sax2, you're trying to do a fundamental configuration of X. That sax2 ever works when run from within a running X is probably just happenstance. Log out of X, Ctrl-Alt-F[1-6] (switch to one of your 6 virtual consoles), log in as root, 'init 3', 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810', 'init 5', then log into X to see if/how the new configuration works. You're not running doz. Reinstalling any Linux distro is simply not how one fixes configuration trouble. It's a big waste of time, typically for no gain/change. Any number of editors are available to fix broken configurations from the command line, plus the swiss army knife file manager that includes a nice text editor and makes finding, examining, and editing the appropriate config files easy - MC. If MC isn't already installed, install it at first opportunity. Then if/when xorg.conf needs some tweaking you can do it quickly and easily without wasting hours emulating a clueless doz user. -- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 02 January 2008 07:36:16 pm Felix Miata wrote:
If MC isn't already installed, install it at first opportunity.
http://en.opensuse.org/Midnight_Commander http://en.opensuse.org/Midnight_Commander/Tips -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
jfweber@gilweber.com wrote:
On Tue January 1 2008, Felix Miata scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
(snip)
The answer is in xorg.conf:
Section "Device" ...
Driver "intel" That's the driver used, the expected result of the instructions at the above URL you've apparently yet to finish. You have to try the i810 driver first before we can progress. None of what I wrote following that direction is relevant until such time as both intel and i810 fail, if indeed both fail.
i810_smbus is probably a sub-driver within the intel driver. There is only one "intel driver", while there are a lot of intel chipsets that single "driver" is designed to drive.
(remainder snipped)
Felix and Jan,
Well I had a disaster. :o(
I tried changing from the intel driver to the i810 by using the command as suggested (as root): "sax2 -r -m 0=i810"
A couple of lines of text appeared in the shell (console) and suddenly the screen went black. A few seconds later it started rolling upwards uncontrollably. Then the picture fell apart completely and all I had was streaks of color across the screen and intermittent scintillation.
I did not know what to do so I tried control/alt/backspace but that just got me back the same streaks of color. I powered down the pooter and powered back up but still the same problem.
Tried to use the DVD hoping to repair the driver but could not get that to work. Eventually gave up out of total frustration. Decided to reinstall 10.3.
Did the reinstall and reconfigured the monitor. This time I set the diagonal size to 19" (I measured the screen size and found that it was not really a 20"). Set the resolution to 1152X864 (XGA). That gave me
If you measured 19" visable, then the actual tube size is 20." My 21" diagonal screen has a 20"-diagonal viewing area (1600 x 1200 at 100x100 dpi) Monitor manufacturers sell by the largest dimension that they can justify.. in this case, the diagonal of the outside dimensions of the tube, *NOT* the usable portion.
76X67 DPI which while not right was at least better than before when I was getting 80X64 DPI. Output also gave me 1152X768 pixels and 386X290 mm.
Go back to calculating from 20", but use the proper aspect ratio, and you should come out with the correct DPI (looks like it's probably close to 80x80 DPI)
Now when I look at rectangular powerpoint slides and .jpgs they're still squished, but not as much as before. When I checked the pages suggested by Felix the 1" black bar he shows for measurement is about 1 1/4", and the various boxes he shows are not the same size horizontally and vertically, so my monitor and video chip are still not happy working together.
But given the problem I had trying to switch video drivers I am now very reluctant to try again. I think I'll just live with the slightly squished images until a new driver comes out that is not buggy. Maybe I just had bad luck, and trying "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" again would work out OK, but I'm just not that brave. :o)
So many thanks for your help. Sorry that I could not test your theories to find whether both drivers were problematic.
Gil
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On Wed January 2 2008, Aaron Kulkis scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
If you measured 19" visable, then the actual tube size is 20." My 21" diagonal screen has a 20"-diagonal viewing area (1600 x 1200 at 100x100 dpi)
Monitor manufacturers sell by the largest dimension that they can justify.. in this case, the diagonal of the outside dimensions of the tube, *NOT* the usable portion.
Go back to calculating from 20", but use the proper aspect ratio, and you should come out with the correct DPI (looks like it's probably close to 80x80 DPI)
Aaron, thanks for the suggestion. I switched back to 20." The aspect ratio throughout all of this has always been properly set at 4/3. Unfortunately changing back to 20" made no difference in my DPI problem. So I'm still working on finding a solution to my squished rectangles. Gil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/01/02 18:31 (GMT-0500) jfweber@gilweber.com apparently typed:
Did the reinstall and reconfigured the monitor. This time I set the diagonal size to 19" (I measured the screen size and found that it was not really a 20"). Set the resolution to 1152X864 (XGA). That gave me
1024x768 is XGA 1152x864 is XGA+ 1280x960 is QVGA 1280x1024 is SXGA (5:4 rather than 4:3, poorly suited to standard CRTs) 1400x1050 is SXGA+
76X67 DPI which while not right was at least better than before when I was getting 80X64 DPI. Output also gave me 1152X768 pixels and 386X290 mm.
Significant disparity between vertical and horizontal DPI normally indicates something needs fixing. If you're running a conventional 4:3 resolution, then if one DPI is 76, then the other should be as close as possible to 76. 67 is clearly not close.
Now when I look at rectangular powerpoint slides and .jpgs they're still squished, but not as much as before. When I checked the pages suggested by Felix the 1" black bar he shows for measurement is about 1 1/4", and the various boxes he shows are not the same size horizontally and vertically, so my monitor and video chip are still not happy working together.
This isn't fundamental to solving your problem, but it's a related issue best normally solved as a part of running sax2 or as a cleanup of the sax2 results. It may in your case be best left to after you get rectangles rectangular, after you have a nicely working X and understand how you got it to be that way. Modern desktop environments are designed to prefer a display DPI of 96, or something as close thereto as practical. The lower the DPI, the more granular desktop objects look. IOW, the higher the DPI, the higher the apparent quality. In the case of your 20" nominal, 19" actual CRT display, the closest you can come to 96 is by specifying use of a display resolution of 1400X1050 (SXGA+), which is about 92.1 DPI on your display. The 80 and lower DPI values we have seen in your Xorg.0.log means your Desktop quality running 1152x864 is suboptimal, and 1024x768 even worse. If you find yourself running sax2 interactively (e.g. running sax2 with no command line options), take the opportunity to select 1400x1050. If not, this can be dealt with after getting rectangular rectangles. Using 1400x1050 on your display will mean the image that's supposed to be 1" wide will be as close to actually being 1" wide as possible given your actual physical display size.
But given the problem I had trying to switch video drivers I am now very reluctant to try again. I think I'll just live with the slightly squished images until a new driver comes out that is not buggy. Maybe I just had bad luck, and trying "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" again would work out OK, but I'm just not that brave. :o)
So many thanks for your help. Sorry that I could not test your theories to find whether both drivers were problematic.
"sax2 -r -m 0=i810" is not my instrucion, and not Jan's instruction, but SUSE's instruction. You just need to do it if you want progress getting 10.3 working on your i845G. Just don't try it from X. Do it from a virtual console. As to switching from the intel driver to the i810 driver, it is technically as simple as substituting one string for the other on the Driver line in xorg.conf. The problem is that due to the combination of your (somewhat old) i845G chip and the bugs in the various X components and in the drivers themselves, other things in xorg.conf probably also need to be changed for best results. That's one reason why the use of sax2 rather than direct editing of xorg.conf. -- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu January 3 2008, Felix Miata scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
Modern desktop environments are designed to prefer a display DPI of 96, or something as close thereto as practical. The lower the DPI, the more granular desktop objects look. IOW, the higher the DPI, the higher the apparent quality. In the case of your 20" nominal, 19" actual CRT display, the closest you can come to 96 is by specifying use of a display resolution of 1400X1050 (SXGA+), which is about 92.1 DPI on your display. The 80 and lower DPI values we have seen in your Xorg.0.log means your Desktop quality running 1152x864 is suboptimal, and 1024x768 even worse.
If you find yourself running sax2 interactively (e.g. running sax2 with no command line options), take the opportunity to select 1400x1050. If not, this can be dealt with after getting rectangular rectangles. Using 1400x1050 on your display will mean the image that's supposed to be 1" wide will be as close to actually being 1" wide as possible given your actual physical display size.
Hi again, Felix. I ran Sax2 from the Yast Control Center, reset the screen size to 20" per Aaron Kulkis's suggestion, and reset the resolution to your suggested 1400X1050. Result: the image that is supposed to be 1" wide was 1." However, as you probably suspected given that the problem seems to run deep, the other results were not as positive. Here is what I got from the command line: 86X64 DPI 1368X768 pixels 406X305 m.m. Unfortunately, the downside of getting a proper 1" image with this higher resolution was that my squished rectangles were made even worse -- much worse in fact. So I put the resolution back to 1152x864. Far from ideal, but easier on the eyes than 1400X1050.
"sax2 -r -m 0=i810" is not my instrucion, and not Jan's instruction, but SUSE's instruction. You just need to do it if you want progress getting 10.3 working on your i845G. Just don't try it from X. Do it from a virtual console.
Thanks for the pointers on running virtual consoles. I will try to get to this tomorrow and let you know what I find. (Please note my question to you on this at the end of the post.) I did want to report to you on the results of my discussions today with e-Machines. In one of your earlier posts you had suggested that updating the BIOS was something I should look into. I conversed with two tech support folks at e-Machines (now apparently owned by Gateway). I told them I was using Linux (SuSE 10.3) on one of their T2842 desktops, explained my video problem, stated that I had been informed by some wise Linux folks that there was an underlying problem with the intel driver and 10.3, and stated that I had been advised to see about updating the BIOS. Here are some comments extracted from the chat logs: Mike_GWER2383 says: eMachines does not support BIOS upgrades, unless available from our web site. Mike_GWER2383 says: To check for the availability click at the link below. http://www.emachines.com/support/product_support.html Mike_GWER2383 says: The instructions is included in the downloads. Gil Weber says: What if there is no BIOS upgrade available on the website? Am I out of luck? Mike_GWER2383 says: If the update is not available, then we don't have any more information on bios upgrades. Mike_GWER2383 says: The motherboard will be damaged if the bios update is not properly installed. Gil Weber says: When I go to the link you supplied do I look for something that says BIOS upgrade for T2842? What specifically do I look for so that I get the correct update? Mike_GWER2383 says: There are no updated drivers for your video card. Mike_GWER2383 says: Also, we don't have available drivers for Linux. Mike_GWER2383 says: Only Windows. Mike_GWER2383 says: Please reinstall the original operating system. Note to SuSE-list: "Please reinstall the original operating system." Now that was not what I was hoping to hear. Following this conversation I went to the URL I was given by "Mike" and found that there was nothing there except a very brief description of the computer's basic features. Certainly no links for downloading any updates of any kind. So I went back on line and connected to a different tech support person. I explained my situation again and stated that the URL I had been given had absolutely nothing on upgrading my computer. Here are excerpts from the second conversation: Steven_GWER5710 says: I understand that you where told to download a BIOS update but you did not see any BIOS upgrade in our website, is that correct? Gil Weber says: Yes. There is NOTHING at the link I was told to view other than a brief technical description. Gil Weber says: I was told that e-Machines does not support any BIOS upgrades unless they are on the site. I went to the URL where the upgrades are supposed to be and found nothing. Gil Weber says: Here is the full URL: http://emachines.com/support/product_support.html?cat=Desktops&subcat=T-Series&model=T2842# Steven_GWER5710 says: Please be informed that changing the original software/hardware that came with the system is a third party issue and already beyond our scope. And also we do not recommend upgrading the BIOS because of the problem that might happen like the computer may not boot at all. Gil Weber says: I understand. But surely there have been BIOS upgrades for this motherboard? Steven_GWER5710 says: And also we do not recommend upgrading the BIOS if it is not needed and if there's no BIOS upgrade in our website, it means that there's no BIOS upgrade for the system and it is not needed by the computer. Gil Weber says: So please confirm that I am looking in the right place. If I am in the right place and there are no links, does this mean that there are absolutely NO downloads available to upgrade anything on this computer? Steven_GWER5710 says: There's no available download for the BIOS upgrade for the computer. And we do not have information about other website for download. Note to SuSE-list: So I tried my best but got nothing helpful from e-Machines. If the BIOS is updateable I'll have to find the new BIOS somewhere else. Any suggestions on how I start? I guess the first thing I need to determine is the manufacturer and model of the motherboard. Is there a command line entry or GUI screen that will get me this info?
As to switching from the intel driver to the i810 driver, it is technically as simple as substituting one string for the other on the Driver line in xorg.conf. The problem is that due to the combination of your (somewhat old) i845G chip and the bugs in the various X components and in the drivers themselves, other things in xorg.conf probably also need to be changed for best results. That's one reason why the use of sax2 rather than direct editing of xorg.conf.
Question: at this point without an updated BIOS do you suggest I again try "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" ? It is certainly possible that I somehow screwed things up the first time and caused the crashed video. If I do this again is it best to do it from a virtual console rather than from the GUI Sax2? Please remember this important point: Sax2 did work properly when I had SuSE 9.3 on this pooter, but it NEVER worked properly with 10.0 and it does not work properly with 10.3. Specifically, when I click on the "test" button to test the changed configuration (resolution) the countdown timer in the upper left hand corner does not work. Neither do ANY of the buttons to change the screen display dimensions (wider, narrower, taller, shorter, etc.). So is there something fundamentally wrong between Sax2 and my motherboard that is going to prevent me from getting this video problem fixed? Am I just spinning my wheels and wasting your guys' time? I know that may be impossible to answer without trying, but what's your best guess? In regards to this video problem am I just screwed using 10.3 and this motherboard and on-board video chip? Thanks. :o) Gil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/01/03 18:51 (GMT-0500) Gil Weber apparently typed:
Question: at this point without an updated BIOS do you suggest I again try "sax2 -r -m 0=i810" ?
The BIOS suggestion was suggestion #2. Back to first things first. Given what has happened so far, until you try the i810 driver, suggestion #1, there's really nothing else to discuss. So, most definitely YES!
It is certainly possible that I somehow screwed things up the first time and caused the crashed video.
The screwed up video was extremely highly likely the result of trying it from a running X. Whatever happened was not permanent. Time to forget that.
If I do this again is it best to do it from a virtual console rather than from the GUI Sax2?
Absolutely. I suspect the GUI sax2 incapable of switching from the intel driver to the i810 driver. -- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/01/03 18:51 (GMT-0500) Gil Weber.com apparently typed:
In one of your earlier posts you had suggested that updating the BIOS was something I should look into.
A BIOS upgrade is something one should do only in case the following two criteria are met: 1-One is available to fit your specific motherboard 2-A known or suspected problem will or might be fixed by an available BIOS update Compare these two product pages: http://emachines.com/support/product_support.html?cat=Desktops&subcat=T-Series&model=T2842 http://emachines.com/support/product_support.html?cat=Desktops&subcat=T-Series&model=T2240 The specifications on these two products are relatively similar. Yet, the former is lacking two sections that the latter has: 1-User Guides 2-Downloads Were it not for the absence of User Guides on the former, I *might* believe that no downloads are available. However, in looking at the nature of both the downloads available and the user guide available on the latter, I seriously doubt that the former page is not broken. That is to say, though it's likely as not there is no updated BIOS to download, I highly doubt it shouldn't have a user guide or drivers available to download. The approach I'd take to this would be to reestablish contact with eMachines and complain you can't find the Windows XP drivers for audio and video, drivers that almost certainly *should* be there. If you can get them to investigate why neither are there, likely they'll eventually find every download that belongs there, *possibly* even including a BIOS update, and fix the page. For the immediate problem, don't expect this to be a current solution. You have to go on, and come back to this if and when it becomes possible. -- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 03 January 2008 05:51:21 pm jfweber@gilweber.com wrote:
Note to SuSE-list: So I tried my best but got nothing helpful from e-Machines. If the BIOS is updateable I'll have to find the new BIOS somewhere else.
Any suggestions on how I start? I guess the first thing I need to determine is the manufacturer and model of the motherboard. Is there a command line entry or GUI screen that will get me this info?
Gil, if there is no BIOS upgrade on eMachines web site than do not go to motherboard manufacturer for BIOS upgrade. Some 2-3 years ago I did that, and week after attempted update I got my new mainboard. Some minor difference between retail motherboard version and eMachines customized was large enough to render computer useless. You can believe me that I was very thorough comparing hardware, looking in version numbers, reading specifications, making lists of chips, comparing them, and all that wasn't good enough. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu January 3 2008, Rajko M. scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
On Thursday 03 January 2008 05:51:21 pm jfweber@gilweber.com wrote:
Note to SuSE-list: So I tried my best but got nothing helpful from e-Machines. If the BIOS is updateable I'll have to find the new BIOS somewhere else.
Any suggestions on how I start? I guess the first thing I need to determine is the manufacturer and model of the motherboard. Is there a command line entry or GUI screen that will get me this info?
Gil, if there is no BIOS upgrade on eMachines web site than do not go to motherboard manufacturer for BIOS upgrade.
Some 2-3 years ago I did that, and week after attempted update I got my new mainboard. Some minor difference between retail motherboard version and eMachines customized was large enough to render computer useless.
You can believe me that I was very thorough comparing hardware, looking in version numbers, reading specifications, making lists of chips, comparing them, and all that wasn't good enough.
-- Regards, Rajko
Thanks, Rajko. Appreciate the warning. Sorry to hear you had those problems. Gil -- j I'm out of my mind - but feel free to leave a message .... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/01/03 18:51 (GMT-0500) Gil Weber.com apparently typed:
So is there something fundamentally wrong between Sax2 and my motherboard that is going to prevent me from getting this video problem fixed?
Possibly.
Am I just spinning my wheels
Probably not.
and wasting your guys' time?
Wasting is probably not quite accurate.
I know that may be impossible to answer without trying, but what's your best guess?
It can be made to work acceptably, if not well.
In regards to this video problem am I just screwed using 10.3 and this motherboard and on-board video chip?
Possibly more likely if you only just installed and didn't do any online updates yet. IIRC there were important Intel-video-related updates after 10.3 release. After a brief experiment with my i845G, I'm of the opinion that 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810' has significant nonzero probability of providing you little or no improvement. Anticipating that likelihood, here's an unusual approach - try using an xorg.conf I custom built that works on my i845G. 1-Download http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/tmp/xorg-i845G-intel-1400x1050x092x24.conf 2-Move it into your /etc/X11 directory 3-Assuming you did not yet do 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810', rename /etc/X11/xorg.conf to /etc/X11/xorg.conf-sax2gui.02. If you did do that already, substitute xorg.conf-sax2-r-m-0=i810.03 as the new (backup) filename. 4-Copy the downloaded file to xorg.conf 5-Log out 6-Log in If I was actually doing what I just suggested, here's what I'd do instead, in more detail: 1-Download the file 2-Log out 3-Switch to VC2 (Ctrl-Alt-F2) 4-Log in as root 5-'mc' 6-chdir to /etc/X11 in right panel (TAB to get from left to right) 7-chdir to location of downloaded file in left panel 8-highlight the filename of the downloaded file (use arrows) 9-mv the file from left to right (F6) 10-highlight the existing xorg.conf (use arrows) 11-Shift-F4 -> type in filename modification 12-highlight the downloaded file (use arrows) 13-Shift-F3 -> edit filename 14-F10 (quit mc) 15-'init 3' (stops X) 16-'init 5' (starts X) 17-login 18-start Konsole 19-'xrdb -query | grep Xft' 20-'kcmshell xserver&' 21-Load http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/dpi-screen-window.html in Firefox 22-Report findings to this mailing list Steps 3-16 I estimate would take me under 60 seconds. If you find yourself with some waiting time while doing updates, go ahead and read all the way through https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=331609 even though much there is likely over your head. There are bits there that could come in handy. Note the name Stefan Dirsch there. If we can't figure this out, he's the developer who should be able to figure out how to fix it - if you can get his attention. -- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu January 3 2008, Felix Miata scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
On 2008/01/03 18:51 (GMT-0500) Gil Weber.com apparently typed:
So is there something fundamentally wrong between Sax2 and my motherboard that is going to prevent me from getting this video problem fixed?
Possibly.
Am I just spinning my wheels
Probably not.
and wasting your guys' time?
Wasting is probably not quite accurate.
Sorry, poor choice of words. Should have left it at spinning my wheels. :o)
I know that may be impossible to answer without trying, but what's your best guess?
It can be made to work acceptably, if not well.
Yes, it can!! Felix, Jan, Rajko, Ken, Aaron: Many thanks to all of you for your expertise and patience. Using your helpful suggestions I have been able to fix the problem -- at least it is significantly better than before. :o) I finally was able to run 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810' from a command line (thanks, Felix for the instructions). After logging back into the GUI my rectangles are nearly perfect! The fractional amount of horizontal vs vertical difference is so slight it is easily ignored. As comparison, prior to switching to the i810 driver I had: 1152X864 (XGA), 72X64 DPI, and 1152X768 pixels (significantly sub-optimal) After changing drivers I am able to get: 1280X960 (QVGA), 80X79 DPI, and 1280X960 pixels (not state-of-the-art, but a major improvement). Measuring the 1" horizontal bar on one of Felix's test screens my monitor now shows that 1" bar as 1 1/32" (as I said, a difference easily ignored). And on another of Felix's test screens the horizontal and vertical dimensions of squares are only slightly off. So I am thrilled to have rectangles displayed as rectangles rather than as squares. FYI, here are the outputs of some reports from the console after the driver switch: gil@phred:~> xdpyinfo | grep resolution resolution: 80x79 dots per inch gil@phred:~> xdpyinfo | grep dimensions dimensions: 1280x960 pixels (406x309 millimeters) Yahoo!! :o) Also from the xorg.conf file (edited here to conserve electrons) confirming the i810 driver rather than the intel: # /.../ # SaX generated X11 config file # Created on: 2008-01-04T10:50:12-0500. (snip) Section "Monitor" DisplaySize 406 305 HorizSync 29-82 Identifier "Monitor[0]" ModelName "20G" VendorName "VIEWSONIC" VertRefresh 50-90 UseModes "Modes[0]" EndSection (snip) Section "Device" BoardName "i845" BusID "0:2:0" Driver "i810" Identifier "Device[0]" Option "NoDDC" Option "LinearAlloc" "16384" VendorName "Intel" EndSection (remainder snipped) A note that might be interesting FYI... Previously I had described that the countdown timer in the upper left hand corner of sax2 did not countdown, and the buttons for changing screen dimensions did not work. After changing to the i810 driver using the command line those conditions remained unchanged. No countdown and no changes possible with the on-screen buttons. As previously, I had to change screen dimensions with the controls on the front of the Viewsonic monitor. So the i810 driver fixes some but not all of the issues with the upgrade to 10.3. But, hey, who's complaining?? :o)
In regards to this video problem am I just screwed using 10.3 and this motherboard and on-board video chip?
Possibly more likely if you only just installed and didn't do any online updates yet. IIRC there were important Intel-video-related updates after 10.3 release.
All of this was done after online updates.
After a brief experiment with my i845G, I'm of the opinion that 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810' has significant nonzero probability of providing you little or no improvement. Anticipating that likelihood, here's an unusual approach - try using an xorg.conf I custom built that works on my i845G.
Thanks, Felix, but I think I'll just sit back and enjoy what I now have. This was a huge learning process for me. Hard to put so much into my head in such a short time. :o) (snip) But I do have one more related issue to toss out to all of you. Many of your communications described DPIs well above 90. Jan even noted that he was getting 129X126. Incredible. Felix suggested that to get to around 96DPI I would need to up my resolution to 1400X1050. Remember that I don't have a nice, modern video card. I am using the onboard chip. Is there potential for damaging the chip or some other component in my system by pushing the video driver that hard? For example, if one were to seriously overdrive a microphone preamplifier you could do some real damage to the electronics. Or if you seriously overdrive the preamplifier in a stereo system you can damage other (downstream) components as a result. Could a similar thing happen here by raising the resolution so high? Or is it simply a matter of trying it and seeing the visual results -- that the only risk is a less pleasing screen but there is no risk of damage? Your thoughts are appreciated. And, again, thanks to everyone who was so helpful and patient. Gil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2008/01/04 17:47 (GMT-0500) Gil Weber.com apparently typed:
On Thu January 3 2008, Felix Miata wrote
On 2008/01/03 18:51 (GMT-0500) Gil Weber.com apparently typed:
So is there something fundamentally wrong between Sax2 and my motherboard that is going to prevent me from getting this video problem fixed?
Possibly.
Am I just spinning my wheels
Probably not.
and wasting your guys' time?
Wasting is probably not quite accurate.
Sorry, poor choice of words. Should have left it at spinning my wheels. :o)
I have a lengthy superceding answer to this....
Many thanks to all of you for your expertise and patience. Using your helpful suggestions I have been able to fix the problem -- at least it is significantly better than before. :o)
I finally was able to run 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810' from a command line
According to the timestamps on http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/ you started the thread Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:38:18 -0500, and after an initial response from Jan Ritzerfeld, a bit less than 4 hours later, you provided additional information. To this I provided my first reponse 30 minutes later asking for more information, which you provided about 18 hours later, Tue, 1 Jan 2008 12:33:20 -0500. In reply 1 hour and 24 minutes later, Jan Ritzerfeld pointed you to the relnote page telling you to do 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810'. In reply to Jan 1 hour 16 minutes later you questioned the logic of the instruction and digressed into what might happen if it didn't work. 27 minutes later Jan responded again, including a reiteration of the propriety of 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810'. Meanwhile, roughly 2.5 hours after your Tue, 1 Jan 2008 12:33:20 -0500 post, I made my reply to it, pointing you to the same relnote link containing 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810' as Jan. Since that post up until your report 3 days 2 hours and 48 minutes later that 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810' worked there were another 16 posts in the thread, both on point and digressions, including Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:31:18 -0500 your report of the negative consequences of running 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810' without first closing X.
(thanks, Felix for the instructions). After logging back into the GUI my rectangles are nearly perfect! The fractional amount of horizontal vs vertical difference is so slight it is easily ignored.
As comparison, prior to switching to the i810 driver I had:
1152X864 (XGA), 72X64 DPI, and 1152X768 pixels (significantly sub-optimal)
After changing drivers I am able to get:
1280X960 (QVGA), 80X79 DPI, and 1280X960 pixels (not state-of-the-art, but a major improvement).
Measuring the 1" horizontal bar on one of Felix's test screens my monitor now shows that 1" bar as 1 1/32" (as I said, a difference easily ignored). And on another of Felix's test screens the horizontal and vertical dimensions of squares are only slightly off.
So I am thrilled to have rectangles displayed as rectangles rather than as squares.
FYI, here are the outputs of some reports from the console after the driver switch:
gil@phred:~> xdpyinfo | grep resolution resolution: 80x79 dots per inch gil@phred:~> xdpyinfo | grep dimensions dimensions: 1280x960 pixels (406x309 millimeters)
Yahoo!! :o)
Also from the xorg.conf file (edited here to conserve electrons) confirming the i810 driver rather than the intel:
# /.../ # SaX generated X11 config file # Created on: 2008-01-04T10:50:12-0500. ... Section "Monitor" DisplaySize 406 305 HorizSync 29-82 Identifier "Monitor[0]" ModelName "20G" VendorName "VIEWSONIC" VertRefresh 50-90 UseModes "Modes[0]" EndSection ... Section "Device" BoardName "i845" BusID "0:2:0" Driver "i810" Identifier "Device[0]" Option "NoDDC" Option "LinearAlloc" "16384" VendorName "Intel" EndSection ... the i810 driver fixes some but not all of the issues with the upgrade to 10.3. But, hey, who's complaining?? :o)
In regards to this video problem am I just screwed using 10.3 and this motherboard and on-board video chip?
Possibly more likely if you only just installed and didn't do any online updates yet. IIRC there were important Intel-video-related updates after 10.3 release.
All of this was done after online updates.
After a brief experiment with my i845G, I'm of the opinion that 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810' has significant nonzero probability of providing you little or no improvement. Anticipating that likelihood, here's an unusual approach - try using an xorg.conf I custom built that works on my i845G.
Thanks, Felix, but I think I'll just sit back and enjoy what I now have. This was a huge learning process for me. Hard to put so much into my head in such a short time. :o)
The point of the above thread summary and timeline was to point out on behalf of the others and myself that a whole lot of time went into trying to help you. I'm sure we are all pleased that you finally got it to work, but the preferable means to that end is not backgrading to the old driver. Backgrading, the first step that was supposed to take place in troubleshooting your problem, was supposed to prove that your hardware can be made to work. Now that we know it can, the right thing to do is proceed to determine if the current new technology driver can work too, because if it can, it should work better. Also, this thread if so completed could be a reference for future Intel sufferers to be pointed to (if they can't find it on their own). So, to complete your profession of gratitude for the considerable effort that went into helping you, and for the benefit of others in the future, there is more work you should do. Back up your current 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810'-generated xorg.conf (e.g. 'cp -a /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf-good-i810') file, then make a copy of http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/tmp/xorg-i845G-intel-1400x1050x092x24.conf called /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and restart X (from root virtual console: init3, then init 5). It should work better than your current one that uses the i810 driver, allowing use of all new technology features of the intel driver supported by your i845G chip. The result of the findings may dictate a Bugzilla bug (probably against sax2 and the YaST installer) be filed and fixed so that people installing 11.0 don't have the same problem as you. Before you do that, make sure to install and test the use of mc. It's an invaluable tool which will make any copy/restore processes that might be necessary as a result of the test easy for you to do from a command line environment.
But I do have one more related issue to toss out to all of you. Many of your communications described DPIs well above 90. Jan even noted that he was getting 129X126. Incredible.
DPI is a function of the combination of display size and screen resolution. 129 DPI means a rather high resolution is used on a screen that isn't particularly large. Jan might be on about a 15" or so laptop using WSXGA+ (1680x1050) to get 129/126, though that size is a little small for WSXGA+. Sony makes 11.1" WXGA (1280x800) laptops, which run about 137 DPI.
Felix suggested that to get to around 96DPI I would need to up my resolution to 1400X1050. Remember that I don't have a nice, modern video card. I am using the onboard chip.
i845G isn't particularly old compared to your Viewsonic, roughly 5 years I think. 1400x1050 predates i845G by a whole bunch of years.
Is there potential for damaging the chip or some other component in my system by pushing the video driver that hard?
Remember the above xorg.conf file, the one I want you to try that works on my i845G? It works on mine, and 1400x1050 is nothing. If you look at that file, a minor recommenting would have it running 2048x1536, which on your display would be about 135 DPI. The thing is, even though your chip should be able to do it, your display might be old enough for it to be a bad idea to try. You might at some point sooner or later try 1600x1200 (105 DPI), but without some research on what HorizSync and VertRefresh your display can actually handle, you might be best off not to try higher than the latter.
Could a similar thing happen here by raising the resolution so high? Or is it simply a matter of trying it and seeing the visual results -- that the only risk is a less pleasing screen but there is no risk of damage?
Modern monitors just go blank, usually putting up some message about out of range, if told to do what they cannot. Older stuff, probably including yours, will put a bunch of noise on the screen instead of something useful, and if left to do that too long, might possibly cause irreparable damage. If you try, and find the screen scrambled when X tries to start, you need only do Crtl-Alt-F[1-6] to switch back to a console that doesn't have that problem. Viewsonic made excellent stuff back in 1993, so I'd not be overly worried about damage. -- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Felix, sorry for the delay in responding. I have been up to my eyeballs in work and only now have a moment to breathe and try your suggestion. See comments below. Gil On Thu January 3 2008, Felix Miata scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
After a brief experiment with my i845G, I'm of the opinion that 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810' has significant nonzero probability of providing you little or no improvement. Anticipating that likelihood, here's an unusual approach - try using an xorg.conf I custom built that works on my i845G.
1-Download http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/tmp/xorg-i845G-intel-1400x1050x092x24.conf 2-Move it into your /etc/X11 directory 3-Assuming you did not yet do 'sax2 -r -m 0=i810', rename /etc/X11/xorg.conf to /etc/X11/xorg.conf-sax2gui.02. If you did do that already, substitute xorg.conf-sax2-r-m-0=i810.03 as the new (backup) filename. 4-Copy the downloaded file to xorg.conf 5-Log out 6-Log in
OK, I did that. Using your customized xorg.conf I find that things look very good indeed. I cannot be more specific -- the display just looks better everywhere. When I use the dpi test screens from your website I find that the horizontal and vertical dimensions of the test boxes differ by maybe 1 m.m., so they're almost perfectly square. And the bar that is supposed to be 1" (25.4 mm) is right there. Everything better than before. After putting your customized xorg.conf into place I then looked at SaX2. It told me that my monitor was: VESA 800X600@60 hz, resolution 800X600 SVGA, 16.7 million colors, diagonal dimension 15", aspect ration 4/3, display size 305X230 mm, sync freq. 31-38 horizontal and 50-60 vertical. So I then changed the settings to match the monitor and to see what would happen. Here is what I did. Monitor = Viewsonic 20G, resolution 1400X1050, 16.7 million colors, diagonal dimension 20" aspect ratio 4/3, display size 406X305 mm, sync freq. 30-82 horizontal and 50-90 vertical. Everything still looks great. So the problem I had originally with rectangles looking much more like squares has gone away with the installation of the driver and your customized xorg.conf. Thanks again. Gil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Aaron Kulkis -
Felix Miata -
Jan Ritzerfeld -
jfweber＠gilweber.com -
Ken Schneider -
Rajko M.