-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon November 20 2006 12:41, steve reilly wrote: You post conveys that you're relatively new to the SuSE family. I have been with SuSE since kernel 2.2. I was invited to the closed beta testing program and have spent countless hours (all donated of course) helping to make SuSE what it is along with many many others. To watch something you've labored over for many many years be essentially sold out to the highest bidders is a hard pill to swallow. Another thought that may have escaped you is that not only was SuSE's reputation built by the quality of the developers but also buy "word of mouth". Don't dismiss out of hand the displeasure of long time clients and users. We do indeed have a stake in SuSE - if only in the academic sense. Word of mouth goes a long way (anyone that's taking a business 101 course know the impact client perception can have on a products market viability). FYI: If what most people fear in regards to the Novell/M$ deal are borne to be correct - expect a mass exodus from Novell/SuSE. My heart really goes out to those that are running farms (server and client). It's no small task converting from one distro to the other. As for your statement: "here we go again. please......... if you are going to leave, just leave." You do know how to use a filter??? Cheers, Curtis. - -- Spammers Beware: Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Like the song say: "Everything's 'Zen'... I don't think so"! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFYiYv7CQBg4DqqCwRAi3BAJ9YfUXbrDpJlbmjAuVSxfJ+oSYkrACfRPr7 0nqsG9t2kQtkEfksWWsP8z4= =zbkc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon November 20 2006 14:34, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Curtis Rey [11-20-06 17:16]:

...

As for your statement: "here we go again. please......... if you are going to leave, just leave."

You do know how to use a filter???

Cheers, Curtis.

Curtis, I know that you participate in suse-ot, where this conversation belongs. Please take it there and respect this forum as a 'technical' dicusssion place.

Thankyou,

Fair enough, I'm just getting pissed off because of the shadow this issue carries. Apologies to the list members. It's just a hard pill to swallow! Cheers, Curtis. - -- Spammers Beware: Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Like the song say: "Everything's 'Zen'... I don't think so"! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFYkj37CQBg4DqqCwRAhJuAJ4g2e98kW7VtaqBJfRd5lBxtTL2pQCeNFx/ Doo1gUPiqQI7GBWm1aKv9Pw= =Exjl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bryan S. Tyson wrote:

On Monday 20 November 2006 15:41, steve reilly wrote:

...

for those of you who are also going to leave........ take notice, most of us are here for help with suse.

The only help needed is uninstallation. All together now, replace your SUSE with something else. I picked Mepis and Kubuntu.

The only help you need is to unsubscribe, leave, go, whatever.

Send a clear, united message. Let's get the SUSE ftp server traffic down to zero as of today.

I'm sending you a clear message: leave, now, and stop spoiling this list with your trollbait. - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFYwXqr3NMWliFcXcRAiLaAJ92R+2q6LbLy/lfkh4/vL9mO6SYfwCgjjnj m1qpt72Zkx4rvKRjoMJaCCw= =Y8HG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

<snip> Send a clear, united message. Let's get the SUSE ftp server traffic down to zero as of today.

Bryan

*************************************** Powered by Kubuntu Linux 6.06 ^^^^^ The only thing missing now is your unsubscribe message.. do your

On 2006-11-21 07:45, Bryan S. Tyson wrote: trolling somewhere else, or I'll mount a campaign to add you to every spam blacklist on the planet. -- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/21/06, columbo wrote:

I choose to run a 'tainted' kernel. I choose to not follow some FOSS or even FLOSS inspired idealistic propaganda. I choose to mix proprietary, free and open source programs liberally within my environment. I choose to tailor my computer environment to my liking.

I will continue to use/support SUSE as long as it fits my needs. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

amen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 09:16:59 -0600 Joey Kelly wrote:

Then please tell me where else I can complain about it? This is as official a SuSE user community as can be found.

if this is what this mailing list has become - then this troll is outta here. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:35:52 -0500 Bryan S. Tyson wrote:

Calling someone a troll just for saying something negative is silly. Novell is perfect, the angel of Linux? Nothing Novell does should be questioned? Novell can join with Microsoft and make moves that impact the whole future of open source, and no one is allowed to discuss it?

I invite all "trolls" to sign Bruce Perens' open letter to Novell's CEO Ron Hovsepian:

http://www.techp.org/petition/show/1

duly signed. I however would prefer to read my news elsewhere. This forum I thought was for technical/support related issues. My bad. and by the way - offhand humor there - I am considering myself a troll - because I just read and soak in the knowledge here rather than posting something actually relevant (if you couldn't tell LOL) tks Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 25 November 2006 19:35, Bryan S. Tyson wrote:

On Saturday 25 November 2006 10:11, Steve Jeppesen wrote:

...

...

Then please tell me where else I can complain about it? This is as official a SuSE user community as can be found.

if this is what this mailing list has become - then this troll is outta here.

Calling someone a troll just for saying something negative is silly. Novell is perfect, the angel of Linux? Nothing Novell does should be questioned? Novell can join with Microsoft and make moves that impact the whole future of open source, and no one is allowed to discuss it?

I invite all "trolls" to sign Bruce Perens' open letter to Novell's CEO Ron Hovsepian:

http://www.techp.org/petition/show/1

Man! I'm not sure what to think about that. I believe Bruce's motives are correct, and what he is saying is absolutely true, I'm just concerned about what a lawyer might twist it into. At some point we have to say "damn the lawyers" and simply say and do what is right. I believe I will sign the petition, but not after giving it more thought. Steven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Darryl Gregorash wrote:

On 2006-11-25 18:35, Bryan S. Tyson wrote:

...

<snip> I invite all "trolls" to sign Bruce Perens' open letter to Novell's CEO Ron Hovsepian:

All predicated on Bruce Perens's assumption (and apparently that of Eben Moglen as well) that Novell either already has inserted or has plans to insert patented material into GPL-licenced software, particularly the kernel.

"Proof by accusation and innuendo" doesn't hold much sway anywhere, except in a campaign of FUD.

And when deciding to invade nations like Iraq. Cheers. -- "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Benjamin Rosenberg wrote:

On Nov 26, 2006, at 12:03 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...

"Proof by accusation and innuendo" doesn't hold much sway anywhere, except in a campaign of FUD.

And when deciding to invade nations like Iraq.

U.S. politics should NOT be injected into this conversation .. that DOES belong on the OT list. It inflames people to much and has not a bloody thing to do with Microsoft, SUSE, or Linux. Please people .. let us not devolve into stupidity.

A bit sensitive about it, aren't we? Australia and others are also in there - and I live in Australia. Cheers. -- "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Benjamin Rosenberg wrote:

On Nov 26, 2006, at 12:38 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Benjamin Rosenberg wrote:

...

On Nov 26, 2006, at 12:03 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...

"Proof by accusation and innuendo" doesn't hold much sway anywhere, except in a campaign of FUD.

And when deciding to invade nations like Iraq.

...

U.S. politics should NOT be injected into this conversation .. that DOES belong on the OT list. It inflames people to much and has not a bloody thing to do with Microsoft, SUSE, or Linux. Please people .. let us not devolve into stupidity.

A bit sensitive about it, aren't we? Australia and others are also in there - and I live in Australia.

Not sensitive at all. Just trying to keep the conversation from devolving into crap. My politics are well known on the suse-ot list where this type of thing belongs.

Yep, you're right. We'll just stick to the old and trusted M$/N$ bashing :-) . Cheers. -- "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 26 November 2006 22:27, JB wrote:

you ass? Get it out of this

Ass, jerk, ... so you are very proud of your vocabulary? I agree that politics should mostly be kept off this list, but the same applies to vulgarity. Please control yourself before you post. thanks a lot. Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Switzerland professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com Madagascar special: http://www.sanic.ch -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, 2006-11-26 at 17:38 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

Benjamin Rosenberg wrote:

...

On Nov 26, 2006, at 12:03 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...

"Proof by accusation and innuendo" doesn't hold much sway anywhere, except in a campaign of FUD.

And when deciding to invade nations like Iraq.

...

U.S. politics should NOT be injected into this conversation .. that DOES belong on the OT list. It inflames people to much and has not a bloody thing to do with Microsoft, SUSE, or Linux. Please people .. let us not devolve into stupidity.

A bit sensitive about it, aren't we? Australia and others are also in there - and I live in Australia.

Cheers.

I agree with Benjamin, let's keep politics, especially American politics off of the technical list. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, 2006-11-26 at 00:18 -0600, Benjamin Rosenberg wrote:

On Nov 26, 2006, at 12:03 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...

"Proof by accusation and innuendo" doesn't hold much sway anywhere, except in a campaign of FUD.

And when deciding to invade nations like Iraq.

U.S. politics should NOT be injected into this conversation .. that DOES belong on the OT list. It inflames people to much and has not a bloody thing to do with Microsoft, SUSE, or Linux. Please people .. let us not devolve into stupidity. other than "Time will tell"...

...what WAS in those Russian convoys from Iraq to Syria? ...was Sadam teaching how to serve tea in that 747 at the camp? ...??...???... ...were there Aliens at Roswell? If we survive long enough, our grandkids might learn the truth. Until then, have they begun pre-release orders for the boxed 10.2? -- Tom in NM SuSE 9.3/Evolution 9:28am up 3 days 7:59, 2 users, load average: 0.02, 0.05, 0.03 ==== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M a écrit :

...

Until then, have they begun pre-release orders for the boxed 10.2?

Good question :-D

don't know, but my azureus bittorent for the 5 rc1 cd's have much more clients than the beta one... may be thats also an answer... :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/mediawiki/index.php/GPS_Lowrance_GO -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, 2006-11-26 at 15:32 -0600, Rajko M wrote:

On Sunday 26 November 2006 13:56, jdd wrote:

...

Rajko M a écrit :

...

...

Until then, have they begun pre-release orders for the boxed 10.2?

Good question :-D

don't know, but my azureus bittorent for the 5 rc1 cd's have much more clients than the beta one...

may be thats also an answer...

:-)

jdd

Good observation. All the noise out there pulls some attention.

I've just found this article: http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS4468266798.html that is first word from IBM, that I know about. Thanks, that's a good and positive read...and as I said earlier, I'll be ordering the boxed set asap. I'm not one to jump ship until the water is at my knees. If I downloaded the dvd on my modem...11.1 would be out!

-- Tom in NM SuSE 9.3/Evolution 4:50pm up 3 days 15:21, 3 users, load average: 0.29, 0.49, 0.68 ==== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Darryl Gregorash writes:

All predicated on Bruce Perens's assumption (and apparently that of Eben Moglen as well) that Novell either already has inserted or has plans to insert patented material into GPL-licenced software, particularly the kernel.

Let me reaffirm that we're not going to infringe on valid patents - wherever they came from. Especially: We will not - and we cannot since it would violate the GPL - add knowingly patented code to GPL code. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

On Tuesday 28 November 2006 22:59, M Harris wrote:

On Sunday 26 November 2006 00:08, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

Especially: We will not - and we cannot since it would violate the GPL - add knowingly patented code to GPL code.

We used to have an old joke back in my IBM days... "How can you tell if your manager is lying to you...?"

"His lips move".

ok, ok, I got one... how can you tell if an M$ cohort is lying to you....

... uh, well, when their lips move???

Cool it with the insults, ok Nothing in the MS agreement gives anyone the right to use any patented code, so not only would it be against the GPL, it would be against the law, and set Novell (not anyone else) up for a law suit Plain enough? The only one that would have to pay for putting patented code into the distribution is Novell. It would be suicide, not community-cide So if you can't trust honest people's honesty, at least trust their sense of self preservation -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

M Harris wrote:

On Tuesday 28 November 2006 16:18, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

so not only would it be against the GPL, it would be against the law, and set Novell (not anyone else) up for a law suit

Plain enough?

Patented code is not the issue (for me, as far as trust is concerned)...

Novell cannot be trusted with the distribution of Linux, at this point.

What do you folks really think *interoperability* really means--- between windoze and linux? ---it means M$ has kernel hooks... one way or the other...

No, Suse cannot be trusted for the future... unfortunately.

Given that Linux, including SUSE is open source, such "hooks" will be visible. Novell cannot sneak anything into GPL code, that won't be noticed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2006-11-29 05:07, Philipp Thomas wrote:

* James Knott (james.knott@rogers.com) [20061129 00:23]:

...

Given that Linux, including SUSE is open source, such "hooks" will be visible. Novell cannot sneak anything into GPL code, that won't be noticed.

Just forget it. Folks like that will never allow sane thinking to come into play. Just a minor correction.. remove the word "sane" from that sentence, because from them there is no thinking at all.

-- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 25 November 2006 10:16, Joey Kelly wrote: Hi, Its just hard to have to sift through all the complaints, and get to the people who really are just asking for help on the "opensuse" list, which is what it was designed for. The "OT" or off topic list is more suited for this and other discussions about what Novell is doing for the enterprise version of the distribution, which is different than the opensuse version most of us are downloading or buying and using. I have used both, but choose to stay with open, I like the newer packages, and constant updating. I understand everyone has opinions about what occurs with novell and suse linux, but novell is going to do what is best for novell regardless of what a small portion of its mailing list subscribers are saying. Switching to another distribution that chances are greater that it was downloaded for free to begin with, is not going to hurt novell at all. What it IS going to help is linux in general, because you are not going to another OS altogether. Thats just my 2 cents, and I feel I have done what I did not have intentions to do, open another can of worms, send it to the OT list please. Thanks, have a great weekend all.

On Monday 20 November 2006 14:41, steve reilly wrote:

...

for those of you who are also going to leave........ take notice, most of us are here for help with suse. not to read everyday about how bad you think the microsoft deal was, or what your personal opinions are about it. these needless emails are continuing to fill our inboxes. please

Then please tell me where else I can complain about it? This is as official a SuSE user community as can be found.

Why shouldn't I be concerned about the Novell/Microsoft deal? I own a support company that's standardized on SuSE, and now I have to think very hard about switching, and to what distro (Ubuntu is not on my list, by the way).

- -- 10:13am up 2 days 17:18, 1 user, load average: 0.14, 0.16, 0.18 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFaGFkdtAqgRKkjP0RApU2AKCDLKNlx2bGZETG8q+yFVq9qcG1QACfXjeR uXQHM9XUtUx7wBqGuK7TEdI= =mic4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:49:28 +0100 (CET) Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Saturday 2006-11-25 at 10:29 -0500, steve reilly wrote:

...

Its just hard to have to sift through all the complaints, and get to the people who really are just asking for help on the "opensuse" list, which is what it was designed for.

The "OT" or off topic list is more suited for this and other discussions about what Novell is doing for the enterprise version of the distribution,

Sorry, but I disagree.

so do tell, what is this list for then? I have to agree with steve reilly. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-11-25 at 10:55 -0600, Steve Jeppesen wrote:

so do tell, what is this list for then?

Discussions about suse/novell linux. In my opinion, discussions about the future of that is more or less on topic, even if I dislike the tone of some of them. Complaining will not make them go away, but rather, will increase the number of disccusions and the noise.

I have to agree with steve reilly.

Well, then we agree to disagree :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFaJLttTMYHG2NR9URArIBAJ9Oke2jgVLd96uKqy97zNso86RxLgCeIGP/ Ryc15H9KzpNsWLH9q4+UHPw= =cYIE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 25 November 2006 10:22, Benjamin Rosenberg wrote:

Anyway. The deal that Novell and Microsoft signed is very much ON   topic. And if you people want to get back to the way this list was ..   I'd agree that actually answering questions instead of RTFM or check   the archives would be the way to go. This list hasn't been very great   for information in quite a few years. I wish we could have it back,   but I doubt that will happen.

Actually, I fully agree that "The Deal" is ON topic. But I disagree that those looking for help don't find it here OR that it is hard to "wade through" as someone in another post so quaintly put it. With any proper mail reader, you can close (or delete) entire threads with one click. With Kmail, you can even assign an entire thread to ignore status, where it will not be shown expanded. Its ridiculously to bypass those parts of the list you don't want. In the absence of any list focused on "SUSE Futures and Features" this is the proper place, and those complaining that its too hard to wade thru need to learn how to run their email client. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Sunday 26 November 2006 02:22, Benjamin Rosenberg wrote:

On Nov 25, 2006, at 1:00 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Saturday 2006-11-25 at 10:55 -0600, Steve Jeppesen wrote:

...

so do tell, what is this list for then?

Discussions about suse/novell linux. In my opinion, discussions about the future of that is more or less on topic, even if I dislike the tone of some of them.

Complaining will not make them go away, but rather, will increase the number of disccusions and the noise.

After close to 9 years on this list and hundreds of thousands of emails answer and sent .. I find the deal between SuSe (I'm an old fart, so leave me alone) and Microsoft VERY relevant to the future of what I will support and use. I remember quite well Microsoft crushing my beloved OS/2 with their bull**** and FUD. I don't want it to happen again to Linux. Believe the PHB's out there pay more attention to Microsoft paid pundits there we would believe. If they start seeing stuff like what Ballmer put forth .. they will shy away from Linux. This we can NOT have. So if Novell makes bad decisions that could effect my livelihood .. then by damn I want to know what they are. And if Novell has to be relegated to a bit player in the computing world .. so be it. It's not about SUSE, SuSE or SuSe .. it's about Linux and other GNU software.

Not one person here can accuse me of being a Chicken Little or having an agenda. I've used SUSE since 4.1 and even worked for SUSE in Oakland. I want them around just as much as anyone else, but I won't have their parent company making shit decisions that in danger Linux. All Microsoft has to bloody do is release their specs for things such as SMB, NTFS and other such things .. the FOSS developers will do the rest to make them work together better. We don't need an "agreement" for better operability .. that crap.

Anyway. The deal that Novell and Microsoft signed is very much ON topic. And if you people want to get back to the way this list was .. I'd agree that actually answering questions instead of RTFM or check the archives would be the way to go. This list hasn't been very great for information in quite a few years. I wish we could have it back, but I doubt that will happen.

- Ben

Thanks, Ben. you saved me from typing all that! 100% agree. I will continue to run SuSE on many servers (no way to migrate that fast, these are production servers), so I will stay here for a longer while. But playing with MEPIS on one notebook now to test it. Well, SuSE is better IMHO, but the difference is not too big. I might be able to live with it. At least the apt / synaptic stuff works and works fast. Oh well, I'm not happy at all about this situation :-( -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller a écrit :

On Saturday 25 November 2006 14:22, Benjamin Rosenberg wrote:

...

On Nov 25, 2006, at 1:00 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Saturday 2006-11-25 at 10:55 -0600, Steve Jeppesen wrote:

...

so do tell, what is this list for then?

Discussions about suse/novell linux. In my opinion, discussions about the future of that is more or less on topic, even if I dislike the tone of some of them.

Complaining will not make them go away, but rather, will increase the number of disccusions and the noise.

After close to 9 years on this list and hundreds of thousands of emails answer and sent .. I find the deal between SuSe (I'm an old fart, so leave me alone) and Microsoft VERY relevant to the future of what I will support and use. I remember quite well Microsoft crushing my beloved OS/2 with their bull**** and FUD. I don't want it to

A VERY sore point for a number of us who were working with systems for close to 30 yrs. I'm just an old goat, and it's true you're an old fart! ;)

...

happen again to Linux. Believe the PHB's out there pay more attention to Microsoft paid pundits there we would believe. If they start seeing stuff like what Ballmer put forth .. they will shy away from Linux. This we can NOT have. So if Novell makes bad decisions that could effect my livelihood .. then by damn I want to know what they are. And if Novell has to be relegated to a bit player in the computing world .. so be it. It's not about SUSE, SuSE or SuSe .. it's about Linux and other GNU software.

Correct!!

...

Not one person here can accuse me of being a Chicken Little or having an agenda. I've used SUSE since 4.1 and even worked for SUSE in Oakland. I want them around just as much as anyone else, but I won't have their parent company making shit decisions that in danger Linux. All Microsoft has to bloody do is release their specs for things such as SMB, NTFS and other such things .. the FOSS developers will do the rest to make them work together better. We don't need an "agreement" for better operability .. that crap.

Right again!

...

Anyway. The deal that Novell and Microsoft signed is very much ON topic. And if you people want to get back to the way this list was .. I'd agree that actually answering questions instead of RTFM or check the archives would be the way to go. This list hasn't been very great for information in quite a few years. I wish we could have it back, but I doubt that will happen.

It's a MAJOR issue of mammoth proportions that isn't just going to go away on it's own, nor dissappear if ignored.

Fred

Hello All Don't you see that all that's happening was planned from the beginning by Novell's heads; the first day they bought SuSE; they had a plan to destroy it and don't be dreamers opensuse is only a leurre it won't survive as a community as long as Novell has destroyed everything and of course will stop financial help to opensuse- This is what i can see and as some guys here are old enough with SuSE just remember all the events happened in the near past.I am really sorry such a beautiful Os finishing like this Jacques -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 26 November 2006 13:33, Jacques wrote:

Don't you see that all that's happening was planned from the beginning by Novell's heads; the first day they bought SuSE; they had a plan to destroy it

You do realise that you are accusing the Novell management of a major felony. If they really spent hundreds of millions of dollars of company money on something they planned to destroy, they would be guilty of quite a number of of offences punishable by prison terms. It is quite illegal to do things with shareholders' money that are not intended to further the company Try not to be so silly, please -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 26 November 2006 03:33, Jacques wrote:

Hello All Don't you see that all that's happening was planned from the beginning by Novell's heads; the first day they bought SuSE; they had a plan to destroy it

What ARE you smoking? Thats the silliest thing I've ever heard. One might attribute those motives to Microsoft but not Novell. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Saturday 25 November 2006 16:29, steve reilly wrote:

On Saturday 25 November 2006 10:16, Joey Kelly wrote:

Hi,

Its just hard to have to sift through all the complaints, and get to the people who really are just asking for help on the "opensuse" list, which is what it was designed for.

Would it be possible to have a list just for people who use SuSE at work or for other useful stuff? People who actually do something with it? Like solve problems about installation or how to get a network running? Like the Spanish speaking list? I actually _use_ 10.1 to make a living and so have little time to wade through the list politician posts. I've absolutely zero interest in operating systems nor trying out different versions. Does everyone still live with their Mother? Cheers, Steve. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 25 November 2006 07:34, Primm wrote:

I actually _use_ 10.1 to make a living and so have little time to wade through the list politician posts. I

"wade through" There's that phrase again... You use Kmail. Right click the top message in this thread. Select Ignore thread. Use the tools at hand rather than demanding everyone else conform to your needs and wishes. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Dear AC, On Saturday 25 November 2006 09:31, Renegade Penguin wrote:

....

My 2¢, adjusted for inflation.

RP

You comment on how discussions occur in this public forum while hiding behind a pseudonym. Why don't you sign your name? What are you afraid of? Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 25 November 2006 10:00, Renegade Penguin wrote:

Not afraid - I've always signed like that. =)

RP

Your ilk are called anonymous cowards for a reason: You're too cowardly to publicly associate your identity with your remarks. Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Thanks, Felix. One of the hallmarks of losing any argument is failing to address any of the points made, and attacking something else. (Not you, Felix.) While I typically sign with the "RP" - anyone is free to sign however they wish. I know of one particular Linux contributor who signs with a fake name, for privacy reasons. I don't myself, but find it interesting at those who do. By the way, I've made comments before when the founders of SuSE and Mandrake quit their respective companies over what they viewed as poor business decisions. Again, I still hope that Linux as a whole receives an increase in notoriety over this, and as generally happens, things even themselves out. RP Felix Miata wrote:

How about lightening up? I don't know Renegade Penguin is a fake name any more or less than Randall Schulz is or isn't fake. Whatever moniker anyone uses routinely ought to be plenty good enough for identification purposes on a mailing list, particularly in garbage threads like this that we have an overabundance of lately.

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