Hello, if I got it right, there are status meetings on IRC every two weeks. The last one was on 2006-02-07, so: when will be the next one? ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- Bist du Rechtsanwalt oder soll ich das persönlich nehmen? [Marius Brehler in suse-talk]
On Sun, Feb 19, 2006 at 09:16:00PM +0100, Christian Boltz wrote:
Hello,
if I got it right, there are status meetings on IRC every two weeks.
The last one was on 2006-02-07, so: when will be the next one? ;-)
FOSDEM? houghi -- Nutze die zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Wert und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das tun. Johannes Müller-Elmau
Hi, On Sunday, February 19, 2006 at 21:16:00, Christian Boltz wrote:
if I got it right, there are status meetings on IRC every two weeks.
The last one was on 2006-02-07, so: when will be the next one? ;-)
Uhm beta/fosdem stress.... http://en.opensuse.org/2006-02-21-status-meeting Open for topics. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway
On Sun, Feb 19, 2006 at 09:57:55PM +0100, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Uhm beta/fosdem stress....
I can imagine
http://en.opensuse.org/2006-02-21-status-meeting
Open for topics.
How about looking at the point from last time and tell what the status is? When I look at http://en.opensuse.org/2006-02-07-status-meeting almost all subjects are still open. Can I just enetr them without adding my name to them? I would not want subjects just be dropped, because they were left out in one meeting. This does not have to be a complete new discussion, but just a status. Are the action points followed and what is the status and timeframe. Perhaps that is something I miss the most; times. When is something most likely going to be done? By what time need what action be done. Be this in one week or in one month is irrelevant. It is just that you can expect it to be done by then. houghi -- Nutze die zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Wert und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das tun. Johannes Müller-Elmau
Hi, On Sunday, February 19, 2006 at 22:30:16, houghi wrote:
On Sun, Feb 19, 2006 at 09:57:55PM +0100, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Uhm beta/fosdem stress....
I can imagine
http://en.opensuse.org/2006-02-21-status-meeting
Open for topics.
How about looking at the point from last time and tell what the status is? When I look at http://en.opensuse.org/2006-02-07-status-meeting almost all subjects are still open. Can I just enetr them without adding my name to them?
Yes we should bring up old AIs and mark them as done or rediscuss them. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway
Hi, On Sunday, February 19, 2006 at 23:18:09, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On Sunday, February 19, 2006 at 22:30:16, houghi wrote:
On Sun, Feb 19, 2006 at 09:57:55PM +0100, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Uhm beta/fosdem stress....
I can imagine
http://en.opensuse.org/2006-02-21-status-meeting
Open for topics.
How about looking at the point from last time and tell what the status is? When I look at http://en.opensuse.org/2006-02-07-status-meeting almost all subjects are still open. Can I just enetr them without adding my name to them?
Yes we should bring up old AIs and mark them as done or rediscuss them.
Ive created a new topic on the agenda for tomorrow: 1.3 Clean up Old Action Items * 1.3.1 10.1 * 1.3.2 Mailinglists * 1.3.3 FOSDEM * 1.3.4 Bugzilla * 1.3.5 Wiki * 1.3.6 Webfora * 1.3.7 Mirrors I would like to close the agenda now. Those are way enough topics for tomorrow... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Core Services "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire)
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 03:13:20PM +0100, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Ive created a new topic on the agenda for tomorrow:
1.3 Clean up Old Action Items
* 1.3.1 10.1 * 1.3.2 Mailinglists * 1.3.3 FOSDEM * 1.3.4 Bugzilla * 1.3.5 Wiki * 1.3.6 Webfora * 1.3.7 Mirrors
I will have another meeting tomorrow evening. Because of that a short report about my action items on that topic here: 1. I have created a small talk about problems and possible solutions with the drpmsync service. This needs to be further discussed and I think the best place to do this is at FOSDEM. 2. To do bring up solutions for some problems with the general mirror situation I first need some information from some people at SUSE because communication with most mirror admins was mostly done behind the curtain and thus I don't know about many reasons why something was considered and why not. Additionally I need information wheter there are specific reasons why other solutions where not considered that I proposed earlier. All this seems to be pretty difficult when not meeting personally thus this will also be delayed until after FOSDEM. Robert -- Robert Schiele Tel.: +49-621-181-2214 Dipl.-Wirtsch.informatiker mailto:rschiele@uni-mannheim.de "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Robert Schiele wrote: ...
* 1.3.7 Mirrors
... 2. To do bring up solutions for some problems with the general mirror situation I first need some information from some people at SUSE because communication with most mirror admins was mostly done behind the curtain and thus I don't know about many reasons why something was considered and why not. Additionally I need information wheter there are specific reasons why other solutions where not considered that I proposed earlier. All this seems to be pretty difficult when not meeting personally thus this will also be delayed until after FOSDEM.
I have been waiting for this discussion on the list as I feel there is a
real problem with mirrors. Especially US mirrors. I have started using
the EU mirrors as they are the only real reliable mirrors.
--
Boyd Gerber
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 05:20:16PM -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
I have been waiting for this discussion on the list as I feel there is a real problem with mirrors. Especially US mirrors. I have started using the EU mirrors as they are the only real reliable mirrors.
Well, if you have a point to make then _make_ it. You should not wait until someone provides you with the answer to life, the universe, and everything. I personally don't have a point that has not already been said that is appropriate for the list. If I started a thread anyway this would just again result in the infamous situation that those people that post something to almost _every_ thread on this list will post something to the thread with no value at all. Robert -- Robert Schiele Tel.: +49-621-181-2214 Dipl.-Wirtsch.informatiker mailto:rschiele@uni-mannheim.de "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 08:22:16AM +0100, Robert Schiele wrote:
Well, if you have a point to make then _make_ it. You should not wait until someone provides you with the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
What do you get when you multiply six by nine?
I personally don't have a point that has not already been said that is appropriate for the list. If I started a thread anyway this would just again result in the infamous situation that those people that post something to almost _every_ thread on this list will post something to the thread with no value at all.
DOH! (Point taken) houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Robert Schiele wrote:
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 05:20:16PM -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
I have been waiting for this discussion on the list as I feel there is a real problem with mirrors. Especially US mirrors. I have started using the EU mirrors as they are the only real reliable mirrors.
Well, if you have a point to make then _make_ it. You should not wait until someone provides you with the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
I find your attiude and tone offensive and demeaning. Your action item item was to disuss/document the current situation and verify whether others are seeing the problem. On the IRC meeting it was said there was no problems with mirrors. Yet every day I have been on IRC someone has been having problems with mirrors/or reliability. The solution is always use the two great EU mirrors. I have been doing that for my problems and they went away. All this does is provide a quick fix for the current problem. We need to document the problems or situations with the facts. I have seen the US mirrors in non usable states. They can not be used reliably or are of extremely limited use. They may be sync'd improperly. I do not know. I heard/read in the IRC log of the last meeting of how the downloads have been happening. So why are the US mirrors so bad. Why are they unusable? I know the on IRC other are experiencing similar problems. I think the issues/problems need to be documented. So solutions can be found. How this is to be done I do not know. Do we really know the problem/issue?
I personally don't have a point that has not already been said that is appropriate for the list. If I started a thread anyway this would just again result in the infamous situation that those people that post something to almost _every_ thread on this list will post something to the thread with no
What are the issues/problems? All I have seen is a very disjoint way of
looking at them with no one acknowledgeing a problem. The thread would
not necessarily have been like you discribe. I have seen some very good
threads here. And some resolutions to community problems. I feel the
mirror situation is a community problem and needs to be addressed. I have
not posted waiting for it to be discussed as per the action item. I have
not seen a list of the issues. I have seen many discussion of problems on
IRC but no solutions or documented problems. I thought the action item
was to determine on this list what the problems are and document them. So
we do not have the same conflict/discussion of all is well...not it is
not.
This does not get us any where as a community.
Thanks for listening/reading my rant on the situation.
--
Boyd Gerber
On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 05:26:30AM -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
Well, if you have a point to make then _make_ it. You should not wait until someone provides you with the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
I find your attiude and tone offensive and demeaning. Your action item item was to disuss/document the current situation and verify whether others are seeing the problem.
I think what was meant is that if you see a problem, you shouldn't wait for the discussion to happen somehow, but start it yourself. Which you now did. Thanks ;-)
On the IRC meeting it was said there was no problems with mirrors.
That's not quite true - it was clearly stated that there are problems. We're working on improving the situation for North America a little bit by possibly getting help from ftp.novell.com (this is work in progress only for now!). Christoph, Adrian, what else is happening on the mirror front right now? Sonja -- Sonja Krause-Harder (skh@suse.de) Research & Development SUSE Linux Products GmbH
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Sonja Krause-Harder wrote:
On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 05:26:30AM -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
Well, if you have a point to make then _make_ it. You should not wait until someone provides you with the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
I find your attiude and tone offensive and demeaning. Your action item item was to disuss/document the current situation and verify whether others are seeing the problem.
I think what was meant is that if you see a problem, you shouldn't wait for the discussion to happen somehow, but start it yourself. Which you now did. Thanks ;-)
On the IRC meeting it was said there was no problems with mirrors.
That's not quite true - it was clearly stated that there are problems. We're working on improving the situation for North America a little bit by possibly getting help from ftp.novell.com (this is work in progress only for now!). Christoph, Adrian, what else is happening on the mirror front right now?
Actually I started asking about the problem on Feb 7/8 and a possible
solution. Then the IRC log of the meeting was posted and I stopped the
discussion I was starting because it was not with the topic/agenda item as
per IRC. I did make note that I had talked with XMission about being a US
mirror. They provide very reliable mirros for many things in the US.
Even for other distributions. There SUSE stuff/directory "suse" is
extremely old and only for i386. I proposed them to be a mirror for SUSE,
but they would need to add a storage array as they currently lack storage
space for all of SUSE. This is off topic for this discussion but, I had
started a discussion and stopped waiting for this topic. Then I saw the
post and so...
--
Boyd Gerber
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Sonja Krause-Harder wrote:
On the IRC meeting it was said there was no problems with mirrors.
That's not quite true - it was clearly stated that there are problems. We're working on improving the situation for North America a little bit by possibly getting help from ftp.novell.com (this is work in progress only for now!). Christoph, Adrian, what else is happening on the mirror front right now?
Not much ;) I'm back from university now and will try to put some improvements into download.openSUSE.org over the next weeks. At FOSDEM, houghi and myself will present a short talk (in the "speed talk" placeholder on Sunday), which features download.openSUSE.org and some other approaches to the mirror challenge. Stay tuned. Regards Christoph
At 12:25 AM 22/02/2006, you wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Sonja Krause-Harder wrote:
On the IRC meeting it was said there was no problems with mirrors.
That's not quite true - it was clearly stated that there are problems. We're working on improving the situation for North America a little bit by possibly getting help from ftp.novell.com (this is work in progress only for now!). Christoph, Adrian, what else is happening on the mirror front right now?
Not much ;) I'm back from university now and will try to put some improvements into download.openSUSE.org over the next weeks. At FOSDEM, houghi and myself will present a short talk (in the "speed talk" placeholder on Sunday), which features download.openSUSE.org and some other approaches to the mirror challenge. Stay tuned.
Regards Christoph
that one MUST be recorded and be made available on the net for posterity scsijon
On Feb 22, 06 21:35:50 +1100, scsijon wrote:
Not much ;) I'm back from university now and will try to put some improvements into download.openSUSE.org over the next weeks. At FOSDEM, houghi and myself will present a short talk (in the "speed talk" placeholder on Sunday), which features download.openSUSE.org and some other approaches to the mirror challenge. Stay tuned.
Regards Christoph
that one MUST be recorded and be made available on the net for posterity
I will take care of recording that. cheers, Jw. -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de wide open suse_/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 (tm)__/ (____/ /\ (/) | __________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 01:57:30PM +0100, Juergen Weigert wrote:
I will take care of recording that.
Will there be live stream available, or will it be recorded and put online later? (Or both?) houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 houghi wrote:
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 01:57:30PM +0100, Juergen Weigert wrote:
I will take care of recording that.
Will there be live stream available, or will it be recorded and put online later? (Or both?)
No live stream. The uplink in the devrooms won't cope with it or put everyone else in the room offline.
The devroom uplinks are 10mbit, per room, through a wifi AP (each room having 1 wired connection,
where the AP is connected to).
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 05:26:30AM -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Robert Schiele wrote:
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 05:20:16PM -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
I have been waiting for this discussion on the list as I feel there is a real problem with mirrors. Especially US mirrors. I have started using the EU mirrors as they are the only real reliable mirrors.
Well, if you have a point to make then _make_ it. You should not wait until someone provides you with the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
I find your attiude and tone offensive and demeaning. Your action item item was to disuss/document the current situation and verify whether others are seeing the problem.
I don't think it was offencsive. I think he is right. If you have an issue, please come forward. If everybody waits for others to come forward, then we are going nowhere.¹
On the IRC meeting it was said there was no problems with mirrors.
Mmm. I must have missed that meeting, because the one that I attended clearly spoke about the problems on non-europe mirrors. Both in quality and quatity. ¹Sometimes on Usenet I see people complaining about something in SUSE. When I ask them to file a bugreport, then they say that SUSE must just repair it. When I ask them how SUSE know what to repair if they do not know what is broken is still waiting for an answer. You can replace Usenet by forum/phonecall/pub visit/random contact. houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, houghi wrote:
On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 05:26:30AM -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Robert Schiele wrote:
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 05:20:16PM -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
I have been waiting for this discussion on the list as I feel there is a real problem with mirrors. Especially US mirrors. I have started using the EU mirrors as they are the only real reliable mirrors.
Well, if you have a point to make then _make_ it. You should not wait until someone provides you with the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
I find your attiude and tone offensive and demeaning. Your action item item was to disuss/document the current situation and verify whether others are seeing the problem.
I don't think it was offencsive. I think he is right. If you have an issue, please come forward. If everybody waits for others to come forward, then we are going nowhere.¹
If you look you will see that I did start discussing it. I know it was a topic on the agenda. I could not make the IRC meeting. I had tried to find the IRC log to see what was discussed. I then started a thread on the problem of Non EU mirrors. Then I read the log and back-off waiting for the thread.
Mmm. I must have missed that meeting, because the one that I attended clearly spoke about the problems on non-europe mirrors. Both in quality and quatity.
That is what I was talking about. US mirror are few and bad. Using EU mirrors in the US is the only reliable way to address problems. All I heard prior to the threads I started with the current one excluded was that Novell/SUSE had mirrors and there were no problems. But the reality was that they had them, but they do not function/work well.
¹Sometimes on Usenet I see people complaining about something in SUSE. When I ask them to file a bugreport, then they say that SUSE must just repair it. When I ask them how SUSE know what to repair if they do not know what is broken is still waiting for an answer.
You can replace Usenet by forum/phonecall/pub visit/random contact.
Agreed. That is why this thread is now happening. I have been chidded a
lot for over stepping bounds to address problems. Even though I have been
using SUSE Linux since the first release, and have had many battles. It
became apparent to me that I need to listen more and not be as out spoken
as I had been in the past. I guess the pendule has now swung to far in
the opposite direction. Finding a good balance is hard.
--
Boyd Gerber
On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 06:12:03AM -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
If you look you will see that I did start discussing it. I know it was a topic on the agenda. I could not make the IRC meeting. I had tried to find the IRC log to see what was discussed. I then started a thread on the problem of Non EU mirrors. Then I read the log and back-off waiting for the thread.
Hope you make it today as it is on the agenda again. Some explanations are given. Naturlay it would be nice to have even more mirrors. So how can we get to these mirrors to ask and mirror SUSE? I can understand (not agree with) why a mirror would NOT be wanted. First they might feel they are sponsering a company, Novell. And they feel that a company should set up its own mirrors. Secondly the sheer amount of data. The lack of requests could be another. The more mirrors, the better. If you look at the amount of mirrors for Debian we have a LONG way to go: http://www.debian.org/mirror/list The reason for this could be that people who maintain these mirrors are Debian users themselves. I personally have asked people from xs4all.nl why they do not mirror download.opensuse.org. Another issue is that ftp.suse.com is mirrored, yet the opmesuse.org mirror is not. So how can we entice more mirrors to mirror what is needed and if possible found out why they won't. <snip> houghi -- Nutze die Zeit. Sie ist das Kostbarste, was wir haben, denn es ist unwiederbringliche Lebenszeit. Leben ist aber mehr als Werk und Arbeit, und das Sein wichtiger als das Tun - Johannes Müller-Elmau
Henne Vogelsang wrote: ...
Ive created a new topic on the agenda for tomorrow:
1.3 Clean up Old Action Items
* 1.3.1 10.1 * 1.3.2 Mailinglists * 1.3.3 FOSDEM
I can't be there tomorrow evening, so if there are specific questions
about FOSDEM Christoph can't answer, please direct them to me by
e-mail and I'll reply ASAP (waiting for the transcript of the meeting
could take too long, as FOSDEM is already this weekend ;)).
cheers
--
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
Hello, Am Montag, 20. Februar 2006 15:13 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
On Sunday, February 19, 2006 at 23:18:09, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On Sunday, February 19, 2006 at 22:30:16, houghi wrote:
On Sun, Feb 19, 2006 at 09:57:55PM +0100, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
http://en.opensuse.org/2006-02-21-status-meeting [...] I would like to close the agenda now. Those are way enough topics for tomorrow...
One more small item please: the date/time of the next meeting. This way, the wiki page can be created earlier and people have more time to add their items to the agenda. Regards, Christian Boltz PS: As I already wrote in another thread, I won't have time to participate this time, but I will read the transcript afterwards ;-) -- Das ist mir jetzt ehrlich wirklich richtig peinlich... Ich hätte geschworen, damals vsftp installiert zu haben. Hab' ich gar nicht, sondern proFtp... Ähem... also gut, dann bin ich eben damit sehr zufrieden. [Ratti in suse-linux]
participants (11)
-
Boyd Lynn Gerber -
Christian Boltz -
Christoph Thiel -
Henne Vogelsang -
Henne Vogelsang -
houghi -
Juergen Weigert -
Pascal Bleser -
Robert Schiele -
scsijon -
Sonja Krause-Harder