Fergus Wilde wrote:
On Monday 19 May 2003 10:02 am, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Fergus Wilde wrote:
On Sunday 18 May 2003 12:28 pm, Sven Burmeister wrote:
John wrote:
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On Saturday 17 May 2003 14:59, Dylan wrote:
>Hey Sven, how many times have you heard you may be a little >too anal retentive? Also, how do you figure 'A' Euro is >singular, and 'Some' Euro is plural? If I said "I have some >euro in my pocket", in english, that means I have one >european dolar, thus 'Euros' *is* plural, since it's >describing the use of two words together in *one* word, but >this applies to the english language only AFAICT.
The issue is one of quantity or number. Quantities don't usually take plurals: some sand, a ton of sand, a grain of sand. This can vary for poetic reasons or to discuss qualities: some wines have more tannin than others. But a buck, three bucks, thirty cents, six trees, twenty chameleons. Things that are countable in units will usually be treated this way.
Er, -
I have a sheep in my field I have some sheep in my field
Sheep is the plural of sheep, and has a 'strong' plural for historic reasons. Many similar patterns, such as 'kine' as the plural of cow, are dead or dying, and most of us will speak of cows. They are very tasty fried in a little butter and garlic. Pounds is the plural of pound, dollars the plural of dollar, Francs the plural of Franc. Neologisms in English invariably receive -s or-es plurals. Striving for Euro as the plural of Euro, at least in English, seems to me to be entirely artificial. The argument that the word Euro 'doesn't belong' to a language is specious, the word will be handled according to the conventions of the language in which it is being used. Words 'belong' in any language that chooses to adopt them.
Euro is a name and one should respect names and not change them in another language, at least that's what most people do.
This isn't about respect, merely usage. The French call London Londres, our pronunciation of Rheims makes them fall about laughing, and so on. I'm not advocating any kind of disrespect for words or names - I'm simply telling you what usage will be, and reminding you that English works by accretion and custom. You can't dictate or constrain usage by official policy. Perhaps it would be nice if you could.
A lot will depend on the word *and* how it's used in a sentence (in english). Also, sheep is just that...sheep...that's for *that* word, I'm talking about the word 'euro' and how it's used and how/when it's pluralized. Heck, you can bring up all kinds of 'other' words (goose comes to mind), but each 'word' has its own way of being pluralized.
A rather limited number of words have their own ways, and none of recent coinage.
I bet that was what they said x years ago when other decrees were made.
Decrees introducing what kind of words?
People please, end this! As already pointed out by others Euro is not a "normal" word but an invented name. It is not an English word, it is no language's word, it is a made up, invented, always staying the same no matter in what language word. Thus those who invented it made up the rules for it too. These rules have nothing to do with the common rules in the language the word Euro is used in. The ruleis that no matter if used as singular or plural word, it stays Euro. Grammar does not apply in any language to the word Euro. If people use Euros as plural, they will be understood and it might be ok for colloquial, however it is formally not correct and those who know better should not use it in that way.
On the contrary, English has no central governing academy and is not susceptible to rule by diktat. The plural will be 'Euros' in English, whatever you or I or the EU Commission thinks. Making such an exception may well be charming and entertaining, but English will operate according to the whim of the majority as usual.
I showed this to my English mates on the corridor, their reaction: Yeah, typical stubborn anti-european, if it has anything to do with the EU they don't like it and don't accept it, you shouldn't give a sh* about them. Well, I did not say it and it might be put a little bit too simple but I mean, they are English, so they should know!? Damn it, your own people, TRAITORS!!! :D "I'm Alan Partridge,..." Muhahahaha.
Far from it, I'm an enthusiastic pro-European. I merely observe that UK usage is only a small fragment of world English, and that unlike France and Germany there is no officially appointed body attempting to oversee the written or spoken forms of the language. Germany, for example, recently promulgated a variety of orthographic and typographical reforms which we can expect to see reflected in school teaching, official publications, and more. The Academie Francaise recently acted against the cedilla. English has no comparable bodies. In the interests of fairness, perhaps you'd care to run this past your mates and see whether they can fault it. You will find the development of the plural in English to be as I have said - if in ten years the expression 'Blimey guv'nor, this pint of Carling rushed me ten Euro' has gained ascendency over 'ten Euros,' I will happily furnish you with a pint of same.
I see your point now, I guess we (my mates an d me) are all a bit too used to the SUN headings and the common attitude, thus apologies for doing you wrong. But remember, there is one instance that according to the constitution still rules the world and whatever she sais is to be don, it's the queen! ;)
I now fade from the debate to the strains of Beethoven's Ode to Joy. Vivat Europa.
Dito.
Best Fergus
Sven
I guess after this thread all of you know better. I am also aware that a lot do not care, fair enough, but the rules for that word are not made up by me, you or anyone but the inventors of that word, i.e. there is no use of any kind of dicussion, as it is a decree without any need for reasoning to it. Concluding, those who care about a correct use of a language care and learn, as everybody does, because nobody is perfect. Those who do not care about the correct use of a language or simply cannot accept any rules because they feel threatened in their personal freedom or whatsoever, just keep on using Euros, knowing better.
To those who think that a word should not be given any static rules that apply to it, just think of all the exeptions that are made in any language to general grammar. See the word Euro as another exception, as the word information is, or news as examples for the English language. Who would argue that it is correct to say informations? It's the same as with Euro, there is no sense in argueing, it is a rule just for that word and that's all there is to it.
Sven
John - -- A butterfly is: Pretty,soft,harmless...and useless, just like M$N. My Penguin and my Gecko eat butterflies. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux)
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