[opensuse-factory] HELP
From the legal field, I do suspect that neither the current
For reference: bnc#742778 Also for reference: Portugal was the first and longest standing global Empire in the history of Manking (1415-2000), as such Portuguese is spoken in many countries; From Africa to Asia, all former Portuguese Overseas Territories speak the official Portuguese from Portugal, while Brazil has it's own version. The most visible evidence of this is: - Brazilian Portuguese scientific production is made by the Royal Academy of Science; - (European) Portuguese scientific production is made by the Lisbon Academy of Science; translation or the English original have any legal value in Portugal since our organic (constitucional) laws require that documentation and legal artifacts are supplied in the native language. So it doesn't really matter. The current text displayed on the License has clear evidence that it targets only Brazilian people, which is OK, but having the very same text in Portugal is offensive; If I recall correctly Portuguese was already spoken in Portugal 500 years before Europe even knew there was an American Continent (ignoring the Scottish claims that they arrived to Americas in the 14th Century, else you can cut 100 years on that). Since people suggested to revert the language of 'PT' to use an English license, I dont mind patching the stuff to do it. Anyone could please point me which package is responsible for the installer so I can take a look and fix this? Of course the community can keep the current stuff to keep the Brazilians happy, which doesn't change the fact that we are still Portuguese and still speak the mainstream language. But as always it comes with consequences, keep a nearly un-existent user base in Portugal :) NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Nelson Marques wrote:
The current text displayed on the License has clear evidence that it targets only Brazilian people, which is OK, but having the very same text in Portugal is offensive; If I recall correctly Portuguese was already spoken in Portugal 500 years before Europe even knew there was an American Continent (ignoring the Scottish claims that they arrived to Americas in the 14th Century, else you can cut 100 years on that).
Leif Eriksson discovered America/Newfoundland around 1000AD, see e.g. Helge Ingstads obituary: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1328355/Helge-Ingstad.html -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Leif Eriksson discovered America/Newfoundland around 1000AD, see e.g. Helge Ingstads obituary: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1328355/Helge-Ingstad.html
And the package to patch is ? :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
2012/7/11 Per Jessen
Nelson Marques wrote:
The current text displayed on the License has clear evidence that it targets only Brazilian people, which is OK, but having the very same text in Portugal is offensive; If I recall correctly Portuguese was already spoken in Portugal 500 years before Europe even knew there was an American Continent (ignoring the Scottish claims that they arrived to Americas in the 14th Century, else you can cut 100 years on that).
Leif Eriksson discovered America/Newfoundland around 1000AD, see e.g. Helge Ingstads obituary: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1328355/Helge-Ingstad.html
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.1°C)
Hi, coolo already told which package you should look for on c#5 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=742778#c5 I never head of any "Royal Academy of Science" here in Brazil, maybe you are referring to "Brazilian Academy of Letters", but it doesn't matter either. Just for the records, I ask in opensuse-pt mailing list if someone could help us with the translation of the license to the "official" Portuguese. Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I never head of any "Royal Academy of Science" here in Brazil, maybe you are referring to "Brazilian Academy of Letters", but it doesn't matter either.
That's it. :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 11.07.2012 21:38, schrieb Per Jessen:
Nelson Marques wrote:
The current text displayed on the License has clear evidence that it targets only Brazilian people, which is OK, but having the very same text in Portugal is offensive; If I recall correctly Portuguese was already spoken in Portugal 500 years before Europe even knew there was an American Continent (ignoring the Scottish claims that they arrived to Americas in the 14th Century, else you can cut 100 years on that).
Leif Eriksson discovered America/Newfoundland around 1000AD, see e.g. Helge Ingstads obituary: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1328355/Helge-Ingstad.html
Please shut this down *NOW* - this is factory, not history. If Nelson finds the text to be offensive if displayed in portugese, it's one thing. But basing it on history facts is just nonsense. I've seen enough "my country is cooler than yours" fights on various forum, I don't need another one. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
If Nelson finds the text to be offensive if displayed in portugese, it's one thing. But basing it on history facts is just nonsense. I've seen enough "my country is cooler than yours" fights on various forum, I don't need another one.
Stephan, It's not history, it's a cultural aspect, two very different things; The only general consence is that in the written form they are close, but on the semantical field it is very different. Portuguese as spoken in Portugal which came from Galaic-Portuguese (which I believe that is also a common root to Spanish) has it own roots, mainly influenced by 3 cultures: 1) SPQR - Romans/Latins; 2) Visigoths and Swabians - Germanic 3) Arabic This is not the case of Brazilian Portuguese, that is much more closer to angle-saxonic languages and some forms of african dialects (for which we are to blame). I find it weird that you select Portugal as localization and you get a text directed to Brazilians, implicitly. I fought this war a long time ago in Fedora and faced whoever came; I've learned something and I'm not going through the same stuff again... So if it's a patch, I'll gladly patch it... Now for your information on the biggest tech forum in Portugal, openSUSE got 5 users (me one of them) against legions of Fedora, Debian and Mint users (and another which name I shall not utter anymore, but known for it's fanboys). What's the explanation when you address a Portuguese audience with a message aimed for someone else? I believe it's OK with ya if we write the EULA for Germany in Turkish. Have a blast dude... and I'm not trying to DoS ya :) NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Nelson Marques wrote:
If Nelson finds the text to be offensive if displayed in portugese, it's one thing. But basing it on history facts is just nonsense. I've seen enough "my country is cooler than yours" fights on various forum, I don't need another one.
Stephan,
It's not history, it's a cultural aspect, two very different things; The only general consence is that in the written form they are close, but on the semantical field it is very different.
In the past I've worked very closely with both Brazilians and Portuguese, and to them there were certainly two kinds of Portuguese language.
I find it weird that you select Portugal as localization and you get a text directed to Brazilians, implicitly.
Is just a matter of a missing translation / locale? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (16.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/07/12 15:38, Per Jessen wrote:
Nelson Marques wrote:
If Nelson finds the text to be offensive if displayed in portugese, it's one thing. But basing it on history facts is just nonsense. I've seen enough "my country is cooler than yours" fights on various forum, I don't need another one. Stephan,
It's not history, it's a cultural aspect, two very different things; The only general consence is that in the written form they are close, but on the semantical field it is very different. In the past I've worked very closely with both Brazilians and Portuguese, and to them there were certainly two kinds of Portuguese language.
I find it weird that you select Portugal as localization and you get a text directed to Brazilians, implicitly. Is just a matter of a missing translation / locale?
Possibly, but I like Nelson's idea of writing the EULA for Germany using the Turkish language :-D . BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 & kernel 3.4.4.2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 11 of July 2012 21:05EN, Nelson Marques wrote:
I find it weird that you select Portugal as localization and you get a text directed to Brazilians, implicitly. ... What's the explanation when you address a Portuguese audience with a message aimed for someone else? I believe it's OK with ya if we write the EULA for Germany in Turkish.
IMHO this is something completely different. What would fit more would be if we displayed EULA to people in UK in US English (which we perhaps actually do). Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Michal Kubeček
IMHO this is something completely different. What would fit more would be if we displayed EULA to people in UK in US English (which we perhaps actually do).
Yes, that's the point. Or Norwegian Bokmaal as a fallback for Norwegian Nynorsk, or Czech as a fallback for Slovakian, etc. I was often told, that Brazil Portuguese (pt_BR) sounds strange to the people in Portugal speaking Portuguese (pt), but they can understand it, and often better than English. That's why pt speakers see the pt_BR license translation. Of course, there never was an intention to offend someone somewhere. So, if if the text needs adjustments we will adjust it. Or if you provide a dedicated pt variant we would add it to the package. -- Karl Eichwalder SUSE LINUX Products GmbH R&D / Documentation Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Karl, Offensive is an 'in extremis' situation, which is pretty much the base of my regular speech, it's a part of me which I can ditch. The main point is: "Esta é uma tradução não oficial da licença do openSUSE #VERSION# para o português (Brasil). Ela não declara legalmente os termos de distribuição do openSUSE #VERSION# - apenas o texto original em inglês da licença do openSUSE #VERSION# faz isso. Entretanto, o objetivo desta tradução é ajudar as pessoas que falam o português (Brasil) a compreender melhor a licença." Now in English (free translation not accurate, but shows the point): "This is an unofficial translation of openSUSE #VERSION# to Portuguese (Brasil). It does not declare the distribution legal terms from openSUSE #VERSION# - only the original english text from openSUSE #VERSION# does it. Meanwhile, the objective of this translation is to help the people who speak Portuguese (Brasil) to better understand the licence." Now... This is displayed when people select Portuguese on localization and is clearly directed to Brazilian audience; I have no beef with Brasilians but it's not the first time I have to raise arms against this kind of situation. The Portuguese used works just fine, the "(Brasil)" expressions give the feeling that it applies only to Brasil... What about the people who live in: - Portugal, - Angola, - Mozambique, - East Timor, - Guinea, - São Tomé e Principe, - etc etc Is this now properly explained? Why is the main language spoken for over 1000 years is being assumed not to exist and a young fork of our main language with less than 200 years is being assumed as standard Portuguese ? Now if people think this is nice... sure... Though I'm a problematic "troll", I'm also a Portuguese an no one will ever be able to change that; From a cultural point of view I have moral obligation of trying to get this fixed. I believe that patching to show the english license is not the solution, and the solution which would better please everyone would be to use the current text (which the author deserves all created) and wipe the "(Brasil)" expressions on the quoted text. This would make it accurate. Regarding the legal value of the english licence, I believe it doesn't really have any because our organic laws require such texts to be in the native language. I've probably went too far with the turkish stuff; But it's just to say that YOU as openSUSE target an international community, you can't just go over cultural issues because you might be offending people. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Nelson Marques wrote:
Is this now properly explained? Why is the main language spoken for over 1000 years is being assumed not to exist and a young fork of our main language with less than 200 years is being assumed as standard Portuguese ?
Perhaps Latin should be used, instead of French, Spanish, Portuguese etc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-07-12 14:13, James Knott wrote:
Nelson Marques wrote:
Is this now properly explained? Why is the main language spoken for over 1000 years is being assumed not to exist and a young fork of our main language with less than 200 years is being assumed as standard Portuguese ?
Perhaps Latin should be used, instead of French, Spanish, Portuguese etc.
Esperanto better :-) Actually, I do understand very well Nelson's issue. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk//CYwACgkQIvFNjefEBxrsjgCffdzu8J9NLnusvvm0oYsWqdzL A3QAnidYLE6KeAQh/8ND6mwMrqEAvnFW =BJ/o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Actually, I do understand very well Nelson's issue.
Carlos, If you are Spanish, then you know that you will be able to understand most of what a Portuguese says, but I doubt you can do the same with a Brazilian; It also happens a bit that way from our side, as I can understand most Spanish (though I refuse to speak in any form which isn't English with people from Castille), I'm not really able to understand a lot of stuff from spanish spoken for example in the Dominican Republic. On the other side, I also have doubts that for example an Irish and a Jamaican can really communicate at 100% as some people carefully chosed to compare English from the UK with the US; Lets assume it's a Scottish/Irish with a Jamaican ;) Though I refuse to say it out loud: Cierra España! NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Nelson Marques
Actually, I do understand very well Nelson's issue.
Carlos,
If you are Spanish, then you know that you will be able to understand most of what a Portuguese says, but I doubt you can do the same with a Brazilian; It also happens a bit that way from our side, as I can understand most Spanish (though I refuse to speak in any form which isn't English with people from Castille), I'm not really able to understand a lot of stuff from spanish spoken for example in the Dominican Republic.
On the other side, I also have doubts that for example an Irish and a Jamaican can really communicate at 100% as some people carefully chosed to compare English from the UK with the US; Lets assume it's a Scottish/Irish with a Jamaican ;)
Though I refuse to say it out loud: Cierra España!
NM
I learned Latin American Spanish and can understand Brazilian just fine. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2012-07-12 at 20:25 +0200, todd rme wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Nelson Marques
wrote: Actually, I do understand very well Nelson's issue.
Carlos,
If you are Spanish, then you know that you will be able to understand most of what a Portuguese says, but I doubt you can do the same with a Brazilian; It also happens a bit that way from our side, as I can understand most Spanish (though I refuse to speak in any form which isn't English with people from Castille), I'm not really able to understand a lot of stuff from spanish spoken for example in the Dominican Republic.
On the other side, I also have doubts that for example an Irish and a Jamaican can really communicate at 100% as some people carefully chosed to compare English from the UK with the US; Lets assume it's a Scottish/Irish with a Jamaican ;)
Though I refuse to say it out loud: Cierra España!
NM
I learned Latin American Spanish and can understand Brazilian just fine.
-Todd
And that should conclude this thread with any further discussions being moved over to the translations ML. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:30:11 -0500 Bryen M Yunashko wrote:
I learned Latin American Spanish and can understand Brazilian just fine.
-Todd
And that should conclude this thread with any further discussions being moved over to the translations ML.
One more stupid useless thread. -- WBR Kyrill -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/12/2012 01:35 PM, Nelson Marques wrote:
But it's just to say that YOU as openSUSE target an international community, you can't just go over cultural issues because you might be offending people.
so, have YOU offered and put your translation skills to work for YOU as an openSUSE user? dd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
so, have YOU offered and put your translation skills to work for YOU as an openSUSE user?
If I translate a legal document: 1) It is no longer a legal document as I'm not credited to perform official translations; 2) I can sued by counterfeit a legal document; A License or EULA is a binding contract, therefore it's a legal document. What is the part you don't understand? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
By the way, it is also a crime to encourage others to commit crimes!
2012/7/12 Nelson Marques
so, have YOU offered and put your translation skills to work for YOU as an openSUSE user?
If I translate a legal document:
1) It is no longer a legal document as I'm not credited to perform official translations; 2) I can sued by counterfeit a legal document;
A License or EULA is a binding contract, therefore it's a legal document. What is the part you don't understand?
-- Nelson Marques // I've stopped trying to understand sandwiches with a third piece of bread in the middle... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/12/2012 03:55 PM, Nelson Marques wrote:
so, have YOU offered and put your translation skills to work for YOU as an openSUSE user?
If I translate a legal document:
1) It is no longer a legal document as I'm not credited to perform official translations; 2) I can sued by counterfeit a legal document;
A License or EULA is a binding contract, therefore it's a legal document. What is the part you don't understand?
i don't the part where you don't try to do something other than just complain about a problem--like, have a local attorney translate it and donate that to the community. dd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
i don't the part where you don't try to do something other than just complain about a problem--like, have a local attorney translate it and donate that to the community.
So the best way out we have is: 1) Having a contributor to pay 9€'s per line for a recognized organization to translate it; 2) Having a contributor to waste his own time by taking it to a 'Notário' so they can approve the translation (and pay the respective taxes, ~50€); Sounds good to me, since it's on behalf of my own kinsmen. Coolo, this operation will take from 2/3 weeks; is this still OK for inclusion and fix? To whom should I snail mail the official approved translation and the white stamped document recognizing its value as an original translation? Mail me in private the address and person to which I should send the stuff. I'll do such donation since it sounds to be the best way :) If it's a problem of money and good will... sure, my culture is worth far more than a few hundreds of euros. NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/12/2012 04:44 PM, Nelson Marques wrote:
Having a contributor to pay 9€'s per line
*or* having a contributor organize a group of individuals willing to
share the burden..
*or* who knows, maybe there are 10 attorneys in any of these Linux user
groups in Portugal, all willing to provide the translation and seals pro
bono:
- GUL-ISCTE http://www.students.iscte.pt/~a12593/gul.html: Grupo de
Utilizadores de Linux do ISCTE
- GIL http://gil.di.uminho.pt/: Grupo de Investigação Linux, Braga
- Lista Portuguesa de Linux http://linux.ispgaya.pt/, Villa Nova de Gaia
- Media Club Linux User Group
On 12 July 2012 16:11, DenverD
On 07/12/2012 04:44 PM, Nelson Marques wrote:
Having a contributor to pay 9€'s per line
*or* having a contributor organize a group of individuals willing to share the burden..
*or* who knows, maybe there are 10 attorneys in any of these Linux user groups in Portugal, all willing to provide the translation and seals pro bono:
- GUL-ISCTE http://www.students.iscte.pt/~a12593/gul.html: Grupo de Utilizadores de Linux do ISCTE
- GIL http://gil.di.uminho.pt/: Grupo de Investigação Linux, Braga
- Lista Portuguesa de Linux http://linux.ispgaya.pt/, Villa Nova de Gaia
- Media Club Linux User Group
, Lisbon - PLUG http://www.plug.pt/: Portugese Linux User Group
note: that is from the first hit of this google https://www.google.com/search?q=linux+user+groups+Portugal it may not therefore be the best source of leads on potential help with this effort...there are other hits..
*or* perhaps the EU, which i'm certain has a huge legal staff and translation capability, can steer you toward EU resources or funding for such an important project..
POSIX badly needs a function to obtain the file descriptor of an email thread. Meanwhile could you please forget about portability, use email2fd() and redirect it to bnc#742778? Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-07-12 15:55, Nelson Marques wrote:
so, have YOU offered and put your translation skills to work for YOU as an openSUSE user?
If I translate a legal document:
1) It is no longer a legal document as I'm not credited to perform official translations; 2) I can sued by counterfeit a legal document;
A License or EULA is a binding contract, therefore it's a legal document. What is the part you don't understand?
You are correct. See some posts about this in the translation mail list: +++······················· Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:16:44 +0200 From: Stephan Kulow <> To: opensuse-translation@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-translation] Licensetext Hi! For legal reasons the translations are done by contracted translators. ·······················++- http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2007-09/msg00038.html More references: +++······················· Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:35:32 +0200 From: Michael Skiba <> To: opensuse-translation@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-translation] openSUSE 11.0 EULA Am Freitag, 25. April 2008 14:26:42 schrieb Kálmán Kéménczy:
Hi there,
When will be available the openSUSE 11.0 EULA for translation?
AFAIK the EULA is translated by hired translators, due to the legal aspects of this document. ·······················++- http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2008-04/msg00238.html How the current issue can be solved, and who has to hire the translator, I don't know. You can ask in the translation mail list. In some cases I had to translate licenses to Spanish, and what I do is that I add a disclaimer saying that the translation is a best effort, not legally binding, and please refer to the original English text - which also clashes with national laws that say that legally binding texts must be in Spanish. I'm not a lawyer, so I really don't know how international licenses/contracts etc apply across countries and languages, but it can happen that something that is legal in the English text can be rubbish in some languages or national legislations. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk//DYIACgkQIvFNjefEBxplmwCglCVr9fLwFNQlu1uuF9cRnALi JtYAn2/nXiPOIBSfiCp1Ex1/heEJ6a7+ =+Z63 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos,
I will provide this document to openSUSE at my own expense; The steps
are easy, get a proper translator to do the translation (Royal School
of Languages); take the translated document to the local Court House,
they will verify the translation and make sure everything is
compliant.
If everything is compliant, they will make 2 copies and use a white
stamp on it; The white stamp is actually some sort of press machine
that will carve the logo of the Ministery of Justice in the copies.
There's no ink involved.
Then I'll mail them to the head office of SUSE in Nurenberg at the
attention of AJ, if it's ok with him; It's up to openSUSE to use or
not use the stuff. From my perspective, then I'll know I did
everything to get it done properly.
NM
2012/7/12 Carlos E. R.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2012-07-12 15:55, Nelson Marques wrote:
so, have YOU offered and put your translation skills to work for YOU as an openSUSE user?
If I translate a legal document:
1) It is no longer a legal document as I'm not credited to perform official translations; 2) I can sued by counterfeit a legal document;
A License or EULA is a binding contract, therefore it's a legal document. What is the part you don't understand?
You are correct. See some posts about this in the translation mail list:
+++······················· Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:16:44 +0200 From: Stephan Kulow <> To: opensuse-translation@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-translation] Licensetext
Hi!
For legal reasons the translations are done by contracted translators. ·······················++-
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2007-09/msg00038.html
More references:
+++······················· Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:35:32 +0200 From: Michael Skiba <> To: opensuse-translation@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-translation] openSUSE 11.0 EULA
Am Freitag, 25. April 2008 14:26:42 schrieb Kálmán Kéménczy:
Hi there,
When will be available the openSUSE 11.0 EULA for translation?
AFAIK the EULA is translated by hired translators, due to the legal aspects of this document. ·······················++-
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2008-04/msg00238.html
How the current issue can be solved, and who has to hire the translator, I don't know. You can ask in the translation mail list.
In some cases I had to translate licenses to Spanish, and what I do is that I add a disclaimer saying that the translation is a best effort, not legally binding, and please refer to the original English text - which also clashes with national laws that say that legally binding texts must be in Spanish. I'm not a lawyer, so I really don't know how international licenses/contracts etc apply across countries and languages, but it can happen that something that is legal in the English text can be rubbish in some languages or national legislations.
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
iEYEARECAAYFAk//DYIACgkQIvFNjefEBxplmwCglCVr9fLwFNQlu1uuF9cRnALi JtYAn2/nXiPOIBSfiCp1Ex1/heEJ6a7+ =+Z63 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Nelson Marques // I've stopped trying to understand sandwiches with a third piece of bread in the middle... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 12.07.2012 19:46, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2012-07-12 15:55, Nelson Marques wrote:
so, have YOU offered and put your translation skills to work for YOU as an openSUSE user?
If I translate a legal document:
1) It is no longer a legal document as I'm not credited to perform official translations; 2) I can sued by counterfeit a legal document;
A License or EULA is a binding contract, therefore it's a legal document. What is the part you don't understand?
You are correct. See some posts about this in the translation mail list:
+++······················· Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:16:44 +0200 From: Stephan Kulow <> To: opensuse-translation@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-translation] Licensetext
Hi!
For legal reasons the translations are done by contracted translators. ·······················++-
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2007-09/msg00038.html
This was true when it was a license *agreement*, but there is nothing to agree to anymore - the license is just displayed for convenience and even stated in the license that the translations are just there for convenience. Gosh, that was 2007 - I bet I even had hair left then. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Stephan, I've downloaded the sources from OBS (licenses-SL.tar.bz2) and I get this: bzip2: /home/nmarques/Downloads/license-SL.tar.bz2 is not a bzip2 file. tar: This does not look like a tar archive tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 12.07.2012 21:37, schrieb Nelson Marques:
Stephan,
I've downloaded the sources from OBS (licenses-SL.tar.bz2) and I get this:
bzip2: /home/nmarques/Downloads/license-SL.tar.bz2 is not a bzip2 file. tar: This does not look like a tar archive tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors
So what is it? Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-07-12 23:05, Nelson Marques wrote:
So what is it?
I guess it's a waste of time :)
Run the "file" command on that file and find out what it is :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk//PLgACgkQIvFNjefEBxpA9gCglTHLC736MeZqNDw+IvmyfXB5 c/oAoKLVzcJ9n2nHDrw5otD8c8C6EXUJ =dAeM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
From the current file (pt_BR):
1st line: CONTRATO DE LICENÇA
translates into > "License Contract", ipsis verbis.
"A contract is an agreement entered into voluntarily by two parties or
more with the intention of creating a LEGAL OBLIGATION, which may have
elements in writing, though contracts can be made orally."
taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract
NM
2012/7/12 Stephan Kulow
Am 12.07.2012 19:46, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2012-07-12 15:55, Nelson Marques wrote:
so, have YOU offered and put your translation skills to work for YOU as an openSUSE user?
If I translate a legal document:
1) It is no longer a legal document as I'm not credited to perform official translations; 2) I can sued by counterfeit a legal document;
A License or EULA is a binding contract, therefore it's a legal document. What is the part you don't understand?
You are correct. See some posts about this in the translation mail list:
+++······················· Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:16:44 +0200 From: Stephan Kulow <> To: opensuse-translation@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-translation] Licensetext
Hi!
For legal reasons the translations are done by contracted translators. ·······················++-
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2007-09/msg00038.html
This was true when it was a license *agreement*, but there is nothing to agree to anymore - the license is just displayed for convenience and even stated in the license that the translations are just there for convenience. Gosh, that was 2007 - I bet I even had hair left then.
Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Nelson Marques // I've stopped trying to understand sandwiches with a third piece of bread in the middle... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 12 July 2012 12:35, Nelson Marques
Karl,
The Portuguese used works just fine, the "(Brasil)" expressions give the feeling that it applies only to Brasil... What about the people who live in:
- Portugal, - Angola, - Mozambique, - East Timor, - Guinea, I think you mean the Guinea Bissau. Guinea uses french and they wouldn't
[snip] like you changing their official language without their knowledge. ne... -- Registered Linux User # 125653 https://linuxcounter.net/user/125653.html Now accepting personal mail for GMail invites. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I think you mean the Guinea Bissau. Guinea uses french and they wouldn't like you changing their official language without their knowledge.
Sorry, we're used in Portugal to say just Guinea, and Bissau the capital city of it; Sure, you are right. But you are right, it seems to be Guinea Bissau (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pu.html). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 12.07.2012 11:32, schrieb Karl Eichwalder:
Michal Kubeček
writes: IMHO this is something completely different. What would fit more would be if we displayed EULA to people in UK in US English (which we perhaps actually do).
Yes, that's the point.
Or Norwegian Bokmaal as a fallback for Norwegian Nynorsk, or Czech as a fallback for Slovakian, etc.
I was often told, that Brazil Portuguese (pt_BR) sounds strange to the people in Portugal speaking Portuguese (pt), but they can understand it, and often better than English. That's why pt speakers see the pt_BR license translation.
No, they don't. Only if you select "Portuguese (Brazil)" you see the license translation, otherwise you see the english one. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
2012/7/13 Stephan Kulow
Am 12.07.2012 11:32, schrieb Karl Eichwalder:
Michal Kubeček
writes: IMHO this is something completely different. What would fit more would be if we displayed EULA to people in UK in US English (which we perhaps actually do).
Yes, that's the point.
Or Norwegian Bokmaal as a fallback for Norwegian Nynorsk, or Czech as a fallback for Slovakian, etc.
I was often told, that Brazil Portuguese (pt_BR) sounds strange to the people in Portugal speaking Portuguese (pt), but they can understand it, and often better than English. That's why pt speakers see the pt_BR license translation.
No, they don't. Only if you select "Portuguese (Brazil)" you see the license translation, otherwise you see the english one.
So that bug can be closed as there isn't any real bug, right? Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 13.07.2012 16:37, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:
2012/7/13 Stephan Kulow
: Am 12.07.2012 11:32, schrieb Karl Eichwalder:
Michal Kubeček
writes: IMHO this is something completely different. What would fit more would be if we displayed EULA to people in UK in US English (which we perhaps actually do).
Yes, that's the point.
Or Norwegian Bokmaal as a fallback for Norwegian Nynorsk, or Czech as a fallback for Slovakian, etc.
I was often told, that Brazil Portuguese (pt_BR) sounds strange to the people in Portugal speaking Portuguese (pt), but they can understand it, and often better than English. That's why pt speakers see the pt_BR license translation.
No, they don't. Only if you select "Portuguese (Brazil)" you see the license translation, otherwise you see the english one.
So that bug can be closed as there isn't any real bug, right? Unless I'm the only one seeing english, I would say so.
Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Stephan,
It did happened to me, and I'm pretty sure it was there; It doesn't
matter anymore, and I don't recall stuff that happened in January.
Either way I will provide an updated official translation for that
text for the next release, as I find hard to get it done before I go
in vacation.
I've also want to correct one thing English > Portuguese is way much
more cheaper than the price I've pointed before (which was actually
based in another language that I need a few documentation translated
for personal use), and the price per line is 1.5€'s (> 60 characters).
So it's really not much burden to donate around 300€'s to openSUSE
considering that it will serve the Portuguese people and others who
speak our language, and openSUSE gets a proper legal binding document;
Though there are some stuff that I believe that might be
unconstitutional as I don't believe you can transfer jurisdiction to a
US court, but that is not my problem. If you want I can run this doc
through a lawyer fluent in international law to check this.
NM
2012/7/13 Stephan Kulow
Am 12.07.2012 11:32, schrieb Karl Eichwalder:
Michal Kubeček
writes: IMHO this is something completely different. What would fit more would be if we displayed EULA to people in UK in US English (which we perhaps actually do).
Yes, that's the point.
Or Norwegian Bokmaal as a fallback for Norwegian Nynorsk, or Czech as a fallback for Slovakian, etc.
I was often told, that Brazil Portuguese (pt_BR) sounds strange to the people in Portugal speaking Portuguese (pt), but they can understand it, and often better than English. That's why pt speakers see the pt_BR license translation.
No, they don't. Only if you select "Portuguese (Brazil)" you see the license translation, otherwise you see the english one.
Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Nelson Marques // I've stopped trying to understand sandwiches with a third piece of bread in the middle... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Michal Kubeček wrote:
IMHO this is something completely different. What would fit more would be if we displayed EULA to people in UK in US English (which we perhaps actually do).
I live in Canada with plenty of experience with both. U.S. and UK English are close enough that there's not much difficulty in understanding the other. The main problem is getting the people in England to actually speak English. ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Correction:
- Brazilian Portuguese scientific production is made by the Royal Academy of Science; Not. Conselho Nacional de Desenvolvimento Científico e Tecnológico http://www.cnpq.br/
Plus: http://www.brasil.gov.br/sobre/ciencia-e-tecnologia/fomento-e-apoio/pesquisa... -- Raul Libório http://rauhmaru.blogspot.com/ openSUSE Member | Linux User #4444581 "There are only 10 types of people in the world - Those who understand binary, and those who don't." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (17)
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Basil Chupin
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Bryen M Yunashko
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Carlos E. R.
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Carlos E. R.
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Cristian Morales Vega
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DenverD
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James Knott
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Karl Eichwalder
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Kyrill Detinov
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Luiz Fernando Ranghetti
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Michal Kubeček
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ne...
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Nelson Marques
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Per Jessen
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Raul Libório
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Stephan Kulow
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todd rme