On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Carlos E. R.
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On 25/10/2018 10.51, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Am 24.10.18 um 17:30 schrieb Felix Miata:
Ludwig Nussel composed on 2018-10-241 0:35 (UTC+0200):
hellcp@opensuse.org schrieb:
fd.o's standard consists of 2 distinct parts, Main categories [1] and Additional categories [2]. Instead of having menus consist of Main categories > Sub categories, we should have just Main categories. They require less maintance, less icons, less translations and standard around them is updated less frequently.
If nobody else has an opinion on that fine with me. Personally I'd favor installing less by default anyways which would mean less crowded menus.
-1
Those submenus are one of my favorite openSUSE features. I've liked the tree branching menu style for more than two decades. Scrolling through main category lists is a pain, particularly when you don't know by name which app you're looking for.
You have to explain your use case and desktop environment. A default install really shouldn't have so many things installed that you have to navigate through a huge tree of apps. And GNOME for example has no nested menu in the first place.
KDE has a menu but deep nesting wouldn't make 'Marble', 'Spectacle' or 'KTnef' any more explanatory. The default structure leaves a flat and crowded Utilities menu and lots of submenus in Games. Doesn't make things easy to find at all. One improvement the KDE menu will see is switching to a different presentation mode as can be seen in Tumbleweed: https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/781419#step/desktop_mainmenu/3
XFCE did something similar.
Using XFCE I have "something" I do not know how it is called, but has the "openSUSE" name and logo on it. I'll call it "main menu". Once clicked it has some buttons on top, to log off, configure, switch to another user. It has a few entries in the main area to open applications, which I normally have to remove and add my own. Then it has a list on the right: Favorites, Recently used, All, Accessories, Development, Games, Graphics, Internet, Multimedia, Office, Other, and Settings. Often I'm unable to find what I want. For example, where are the tools to manage PGP keys, ie security related tools or apps?
I believe current default menu is Whisker.
If I start to type "PGP" I get: HP device manager, LibreOffice Calc, Cheese, Gimp, LibreOffice Impress, Mahjongg - all of them very much related to PGP, as you can see. Right?
There are two issues with this, and I would like to believe this is a bug, and not intentional thing. What Gnome does with search, is to search using the whole desktop files provided in /usr/share/applications. If XFCE searches by just names, it will definetely be hard to find anything based on more generic terms. Another thing is that, even if it did search using category, there is no category specifically mentioning PGP anyway.
So I had to add to the panel two menu entries. One is called "Applications Menu", and opens "/etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu". The other is called the same, but opens "/etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu". One of this has Utilities/Security - although it doesn't show ALL the PGP tools, they are on some other menu entry.
That indicates what mess categories really are. I mean, there is standard, but it is not conclusive enough that we are able to judge whether or not the category of certain desktop file is correct, because multiple options are still close enough. I would actually report anything that isn't in common category in those menus, but should be, it can be real pain to find stuff if that's the case.
Otherwise, I have to remember the name of the application and type its name on the main "menu", and I get the entry - what good is a main menu if I have to type the name of the application to get it? I might as well use alt-F2 instead.
Remember that many XFCE users go there running away from the modernities of Gnome or KDE. We like traditional menus.
I get that, but I don't see the value of having 5 subcategories per category, each containing 1 maybe 2 applications within it. It still makes sense to have 10 alphabetically sorted applications, because they are still easy enough to recognize.
I don't really care about the icons, but I do not understand the problem: each application should provide somehow its own icon and the menu handler should be able to find it automatically. From my times as Windows programmer I remember the exe file contained the icon resource in an standard way. Doesn't Linux do the same?
Linux, due to theming, provides icons in standard directory (/usr/share/icons, default theme is hicolor there). You can have icons inside of resource (my patch to libyui did just that with package manager emblems, but still accepts icons from themes). But this is not the issue. Categories have their own icons, and if we go out of standard when it comes to providing additional icons for categories, we need to provide those additional icons. Application icons are seperate thing entirely. LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org