Am Montag, 20. August 2012, 07:55:44 schrieb DenverD:
but the problem i'm talking about that not many new in from Windows will attempt to update/install with zypper (at least until they learn what a "terminal" is) but they will sure find many dozens of "1-Click Intall" buttons which by default leave a _wide_ variety of repos enabled (which the usual new user will happily leave enabled--hey its FREE, so it must be good to have more and more)....and then apper pops up list of upgraded software (NOT just from the update repo) and the new users automatically (seems like--since they are conditioned by their previous OS) give the go-ahead allowing the pop-up to make their decisions and just load up conflicting software and kill their system..
I think this shows quite nicely why improving the situation is not that easy. People confuse and mix-up names, apps, GUIs and use cases etc. Apper (the KDE app) does not show the user a list of possible choices including to ignore dependencies. YaST and zypper do. -> apper devs do not feel addressed. Apper does show all updates that do not need a vendor change. The reason for that is a back-end setting. Apper does as it is told, i.e. something like zypper up instead of zypper patch. -> apper devs do not feel addressed. everybody else points to the decision taken and the pros and cons. The term "apper" being used for everything randomly related to packagkit -> no dev feels addressed, since nobody knows which piece of software the issue does actually relate to. People try to kill packakitd but do not disable the service that calls it and wonder why it always respawns. -> no dev feels addressed because it is possible to simply disable the service.
then they show up in the forums with blood-shot eyes and 10, 15 or 25 enabled and refreshed repos that apper/package kit is serving death from...asking why they can no longer boot, or . . .
And its not apper's fault. So what you want is to revert the decision to show all non-vendor-change updates. After that you will have the request to show them again. Once you allow to add third party repos they might also contain security-relevant updates, hence showing them does make some sense. The only solution I see is to provide a GUI-option to switch the behaviour. If you want to prevent users from screwing-up their system apper is not the piece of software to look at. You will have to restrict one-clicks-installs, zypper up and YaST's non-YOU update functionality. The only real issue there seems to be is that people who use zypper notice that packagekitd does not die fast enough or blocks zypper on some occasions. Easy solution, those that do not want to use packagkit and do not need an update notifier simply disable the service calling it. Those that want to use a notifier and zypper will have to accept that packagekitd is called from time to time and blocks zypper, as their daily zypper patch cronjob would do as well. Hence debugging the daemon, front-end and zypp-back-end's state while packagekitd respawns endlessly or never finishes is the only thing useful regarding improving the situation. Removing all Packagkit update notifiers will not. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org