July 2001 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
by Gary Stainburn 17 Jul '01

17 Jul '01

On Monday 16 July 2001 7:32 pm, Damian Counsell wrote: [snip] > (I'd like to > point out that I have nothing in particular against Ford that I don't have I'm glad to hear it - I suppose now's not a good time to advertise the latest Options? > against any other manufacturer of gas-guzzling, child-maiming, > environment-despoiling motor vehicles; I write hypothetically.) Ah! I guess not! -- Gary Stainburn This email does not contain private or confidential material as it may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown and undisclosed purposes - Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
by Coulton,G 16 Jul '01

16 Jul '01

Morning Everyone :) I have worked in schools for over two and a half years and the ICT Co-ordinator has for twenty five years. Neither of use have seen ANY publication on licensing ETC. Does the DfES produce one? Is it a LEA thing? Who is in charge of letting schools know about licensing? TIA Gary Coulton Corpus Christi Catholic High School Neville Road, LEEDS. UK LS9 0TT Tel: +44 113 248 2666 Fax: +44 113 235 0758 Email: coultogi01(a)leedslearning.net Website: www.cchsleeds.demon.co.uk "Corpus Christi Catholic High School, has Technology College Status, and specialises in ICT, Maths, Science and Design Technology" > -----Original Message----- > From: Malcolm Herbert [mailto:mherbert@redhat.com] > Sent: 13 July 2001 17:00 > To: "Schools List > <suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com>"@lacrosse.corp.redhat.com > Cc: Coulton,G; 'Mark Evans'; 'Simon Wood'; Schools List > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy > > > hi all > > adding to the debate, here is the synopsis of a BESA report > on illegal > software use carried out in 1999 (and repeated last year), on > the Becta web > site. Wonder who the sponsors of the report were ? > > Malcolm > > > Half of schools found licensing overly complex. The main > problems were > reported as being the variety of different licence agreements > and confusing > language in documentation. > > Many teachers were unsure whether and under what > circumstances copying of > software was allowed. Half of teachers believed that it was > acceptable to copy > software for classroom use. Copying for home use or copying > for a colleague > was thought to be acceptable by about a fifth of teachers. > Ten per cent of > teachers thought it acceptable to lend colleagues software > when not in use by > the licence holder. > > Half of primary schools and a quarter of secondary schools > were unaware of the > penalties they might incur for use of unlicensed software. > Secondary schools > were concerned about others using unlicensed software because > they felt that > the outcome would be more expensive software products. > Schools were unsure how > easy or difficult it might be to identify schools using > unlicensed software, > but the majority thought it might be difficult. > > Just under half of ICT co-ordinators reported that they would > not know who to > ask for advice. Of the others, most said that they would turn > to local > authority ICT centres and advisers. Organisations such as the > Federation > Against Software Theft (FAST) or the British Educational Suppliers > Association (BESA) are unlikely to be consulted. > > Only a small minority of schools across the UK has ever > discussed licensing > at governors? meetings, and few schools indicated that they > had plans to do > so. > > The majority of schools thought it would be illegal for > software distributors > to sell unlicensed software. Schools indicated concern that > their supplier > might pass on unlicensed software. Generally, software > distributors and > producers were not felt to provide adequate information. > > A third of primary schools and half of secondary schools had > procedures in > place to ensure that software is licensed to the > manufacturer?s requirements. > > > > On Thursday 12 July 2001 14:59, Mark Evans wrote: > > > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Coulton,G wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk] > > > > > Sent: 11 July 2001 14:36 > > > > > To: Coulton,G > > > > > Cc: 'Simon Wood'; Schools List > > > > > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in > schools/piracy > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Simon, > > > > > > > > > > > > I think something came across my desk in relation to Linux > > > > > > > > > > a while back. The > > > > > > > > > > > reason we didn't respond is because :- > > > > > > > > > > > > a) Trying to manage the network growing as quick as most > > > > > > > > > > High Schools > > > > > > > > > > > netwrks is very time consuming (to give you an idea I have > > > > > > > > > > 123 computers to > > > > > > > > > > > set up using some form of OS, a language lab with 32 > > > > > > > > > > machines, interactive > > > > > > > > > > > whiteboards and another computer room all before > > > > > > > > > > September). To change or > > > > > > > > > > > look at something as (I hesitate to use this word) radical > > > > > > > > > > as Linux is a big > > > > > > > > > > > step and eXTREMELY time consuming, where as I'm sure you'll > > > > > > > > > > agree - adding > > > > > > > > > > > an NT Box as a BDC to the network is extremely simple :) > > > > > > > > > > Since when is a BDC a workstation? > > > > > > > > I'm talking about workstations! I'm talking about > adding a Linux Server > > > > as opposed to an NT / W2K / XP Server > > > > > > snip > > > > > > I had to add my mite here as I don't agree at all. Your > argument assumes > > > you are moving from NT and learning Linux. I could set up > a Linux server > > > much quicker. It is only eXTREMELY time consuming if you > start from > > > knowing nothing about it. I would have the same problem > in reverse if I > > > > Possibly it's more time consuming for someone knowing only > NT, which would > > only apply to relative newcomers anyway... > > > > > ever succumbed to the suggestions I get to install NT - I > refuse to do it > > > > I actually have exactly this problem. In that I cannot get a W2K to > > reliably work as a replacement for our Netware 3.12 server in order > > to operate SIMS. But the new SQL stuff isn't supported running on > > a proper SQL server. > > > > Interestingly it's only the 95 workstations which have a problem > > communicating with this server, smbclient has no problem > recognising it. > > > > Both Microsoft and the LEA people have little idea why it shouldn't > > work. > > > > > as I don't have the time to spare to learn how to do it. > If I could see > > > *any* technological advantage in doing so I would have to > consider it > > > seriously. I won't go into the rest of the arguments > pro/con which we > > > keep rehashing here. I do know that if I ever do get > forced into getting > > > involved in NT/W2k I will miss the openness and freedom > of information I > > > get using Open Source. > > > > Virtually every time I have to deal with a piece of Windows software > > (especially if it's from Microsoft) I am left feeling as > though I would > > be better off headbutting a wall. (The only notable > exceptions have been > > Techsoft and Avco Systems.) > > -- > ------------------------------------ > Malcolm Herbert > Red Hat Europe > t:+44 1483 734955 m:+44 7720 079845 > ------------------------------------ >

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Success with small memory machine!
by Phil Driscoll 15 Jul '01

15 Jul '01

I'm very pleased to report that I've installed Suse 7.2 on one of the 32Mb RAM 200MHz machine with the Blackbox window manager, and it works a treat! Thanks to all who suggested it! Quick tests done so far: Konqueror web browsing - works great. Netscape - ditto. Abiword - works fine So the next issue for me is to select a useful range of 'non-bloat' software for the machines. The basic requirements are word processing/simple DTP, spreadsheets, some kind of graphics package (equivalents of !Draw and !Paint for Acorn aficionados) and anything else anyone thinks might be useful for a target audience of year 7 to year 11 kids. It would help if there is not too much of a culture shock involved in moving between the Acorn machines and Windows boxes already in use throughout the school, and some degree of file format compatibility would be useful. I'm happy with konqueror for web browsing, and the teachers and pupils use a web mail system to access their emails, so there is no additional requirement there. Cheers (and thanks again for helping me get this far!) -- Phil Driscoll

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Open Source/Free software vs. Windows - a quantative approach
by Phil Driscoll 14 Jul '01

14 Jul '01

Many of you will have seen this mentioned on slashdot, but for those who haven't, the document provides lots of interesting figures for when you need to argue your corner. http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html -- Phil Driscoll

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Compiling Sendmail
by Marcus Birkin 13 Jul '01

13 Jul '01

To start off with please excuse my ignorance (and in places my spelling) What I need to do is compile sendmail with database support (so I can use aliases, access, etc) I have added some code to sendmail for extra logging and as such unable to just use an RPM. Could someone please give me a step by step guide on how to do this (I can compile and install with out DB support) Thanks Marcus

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
by Coulton,G 13 Jul '01

13 Jul '01

> -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk] > Sent: 11 July 2001 14:36 > To: Coulton,G > Cc: 'Simon Wood'; Schools List > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy > > > > Hi Simon, > > > > I think something came across my desk in relation to Linux > a while back. The > > reason we didn't respond is because :- > > > > a) Trying to manage the network growing as quick as most > High Schools > > netwrks is very time consuming (to give you an idea I have > 123 computers to > > set up using some form of OS, a language lab with 32 > machines, interactive > > whiteboards and another computer room all before > September). To change or > > look at something as (I hesitate to use this word) radical > as Linux is a big > > step and eXTREMELY time consuming, where as I'm sure you'll > agree - adding > > an NT Box as a BDC to the network is extremely simple :) > > Since when is a BDC a workstation? I'm talking about workstations! I'm talking about adding a Linux Server as opposed to an NT / W2K / XP Server >From the information I seem to remember receiving this is what they were seemingly talking about. > > It's workstations which take up most of the time with Windows. > Compounded by Windows being an operating system which expects to > be end user administered, hence makes it easy for the person using > the machine to mess with all sorts of things. That's the reason for profiles and policies surely? > > Let alone that being able to install an application only once > for the whole network is unimaginable with an entirely Windows > system. > > How much time do you think you would have to spend converting > to XP? > At the moment. None! W2K looks like you have to buy W2K CALs, so I'm presuming you have to buy the same for XP. As someone who has already spent a fair amount of money on NT CALs I'm not prepared to spend even more on something which we don't need in school at this present time. I can only talk from my schools perspective which to be honest has been playing catchup on IT. All the money we spend needs to be on new stuff - not upgrading year old stuff just because MS thinks they might like to release ANOTHER all singing and dancing OS

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software in schools/piracy
by Frank Shute 13 Jul '01

13 Jul '01

There's quite an interesting article at Salon about how US schools are being hunted down and fined for using pirated commercial software & how they are reacting: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/07/10/microsoft_school/index.html Are UK schools going to be next in the line of fire? I've heard that controlling licences and the paperwork involved is a major time consumer and administrative nightmare for schools. Anybody got any personal experience? The real shocker was getting fined $50000 for 100 odd illegal copies of MSDOS. I'm sure there are plenty of schools in this country who have many illegal copies of DOS running under Windows without realising it. Anybody been investigated/fined yet? -- Frank *-------*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-------* | Boroughbridge | Tel: 01423 323019 | PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3 | *-------*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-------* http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
by Simon Wood 12 Jul '01

12 Jul '01

> -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Harris [SMTP:alanh@bryngwyn.carmarthen.sch.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 9:56 AM > To: Ian Lynch > Cc: Frank Shute; Schools List > Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy > > if we want this to work, and we want schools to go opensource, then we, > the open source community, are going to have to provide training > materials, faq's and example lessons which lead to defined National > Curriculum Levels. When we can do this THEN we can provide a total > solution to the Microshaft problem.... [Simon Wood] I agree 100% with this, I spent some effort with my local LUG (WYLUG) to put together a 'Schools Page' and wrote to a few local schools presenting ourselves and offer support and information if they wanted it. So far we have not heard anything back - I guess that they are either not interested or simply are too busy coping with the other problems that they have in school. I think it is a very difficult situation, if you are too evangelical you will only create barriers Simon Wood. PS If you want help (or to help out) in West Yorkshire check the WYLUG web site - http://www.wylug.org.uk

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Apache on the warpath
by ptaylor 12 Jul '01

12 Jul '01

Hi all: Sorry to divert from the interesting discussion on piracy and software. I have up-dated my machine from 7.1 to 7.2 (thanks Roger, cheque pending) which went okay but my web server does not work now. It created a new httpd.conf file but when I run apache I get an error message that tomcat.conf is wrong. I have tracked that down and it seems to be part of jakarta? I expect, I have not looked yet (100/350 A level papers still distracting me), that I am now on Apache 2 which I have not had time to look at. I renamed my old httpd.conf and it worked again but probably as 1.3. Not that this is a problem but the new server would be nice to play with. Any suggestions? Also, (one for Christopher Dawkins?) I am running vnc here at school and was hoping to get a nice linux desktop on my Win machine but only get the terminal. Any suggestions? Paul

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'Free' X Server for Windows 95/etc.
by Simon Wood 12 Jul '01

12 Jul '01

Hi all, There were a few questions a while ago asking about X-Servers for Windows. There is now a Cygwin port of XFree which seems to works quite well..... [It's a shame that X is state-ful you loose all your work when Windoze crashes, but maybe it's an option for some people.] Magic URL: http://www.cygwin.com/xfree/ Have fun. Simon Wood

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