RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
-----Original Message----- From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk] Sent: 11 July 2001 14:36 To: Coulton,G Cc: 'Simon Wood'; Schools List Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
Hi Simon,
I think something came across my desk in relation to Linux a while back. The reason we didn't respond is because :-
a) Trying to manage the network growing as quick as most High Schools netwrks is very time consuming (to give you an idea I have 123 computers to set up using some form of OS, a language lab with 32 machines, interactive whiteboards and another computer room all before September). To change or look at something as (I hesitate to use this word) radical as Linux is a big step and eXTREMELY time consuming, where as I'm sure you'll agree - adding an NT Box as a BDC to the network is extremely simple :)
Since when is a BDC a workstation?
From the information I seem to remember receiving this is what
I'm talking about workstations! I'm talking about adding a Linux Server as opposed to an NT / W2K / XP Server they were seemingly talking about.
It's workstations which take up most of the time with Windows. Compounded by Windows being an operating system which expects to be end user administered, hence makes it easy for the person using the machine to mess with all sorts of things.
That's the reason for profiles and policies surely?
Let alone that being able to install an application only once for the whole network is unimaginable with an entirely Windows system.
How much time do you think you would have to spend converting to XP?
At the moment. None! W2K looks like you have to buy W2K CALs, so I'm presuming you have to buy the same for XP. As someone who has already spent a fair amount of money on NT CALs I'm not prepared to spend even more on something which we don't need in school at this present time. I can only talk from my schools perspective which to be honest has been playing catchup on IT. All the money we spend needs to be on new stuff - not upgrading year old stuff just because MS thinks they might like to release ANOTHER all singing and dancing OS
On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Coulton,G wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk] Sent: 11 July 2001 14:36 To: Coulton,G Cc: 'Simon Wood'; Schools List Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
Hi Simon,
I think something came across my desk in relation to Linux a while back. The reason we didn't respond is because :-
a) Trying to manage the network growing as quick as most High Schools netwrks is very time consuming (to give you an idea I have 123 computers to set up using some form of OS, a language lab with 32 machines, interactive whiteboards and another computer room all before September). To change or look at something as (I hesitate to use this word) radical as Linux is a big step and eXTREMELY time consuming, where as I'm sure you'll agree - adding an NT Box as a BDC to the network is extremely simple :)
Since when is a BDC a workstation?
I'm talking about workstations! I'm talking about adding a Linux Server as opposed to an NT / W2K / XP Server
snip I had to add my mite here as I don't agree at all. Your argument assumes you are moving from NT and learning Linux. I could set up a Linux server much quicker. It is only eXTREMELY time consuming if you start from knowing nothing about it. I would have the same problem in reverse if I ever succumbed to the suggestions I get to install NT - I refuse to do it as I don't have the time to spare to learn how to do it. If I could see *any* technological advantage in doing so I would have to consider it seriously. I won't go into the rest of the arguments pro/con which we keep rehashing here. I do know that if I ever do get forced into getting involved in NT/W2k I will miss the openness and freedom of information I get using Open Source. ____________________________________ Giles Nunn - Network Manager Carms Schools ICT Development Centre Tel: +44 01239 710662 Fax: 710985 ____________________________________
On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Coulton,G wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk] Sent: 11 July 2001 14:36 To: Coulton,G Cc: 'Simon Wood'; Schools List Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
Hi Simon,
I think something came across my desk in relation to Linux a while back. The reason we didn't respond is because :-
a) Trying to manage the network growing as quick as most High Schools netwrks is very time consuming (to give you an idea I have 123 computers to set up using some form of OS, a language lab with 32 machines, interactive whiteboards and another computer room all before September). To change or look at something as (I hesitate to use this word) radical as Linux is a big step and eXTREMELY time consuming, where as I'm sure you'll agree - adding an NT Box as a BDC to the network is extremely simple :)
Since when is a BDC a workstation?
I'm talking about workstations! I'm talking about adding a Linux Server as opposed to an NT / W2K / XP Server
snip
I had to add my mite here as I don't agree at all. Your argument assumes you are moving from NT and learning Linux. I could set up a Linux server much quicker. It is only eXTREMELY time consuming if you start from knowing nothing about it. I would have the same problem in reverse if I
Possibly it's more time consuming for someone knowing only NT, which would only apply to relative newcomers anyway...
ever succumbed to the suggestions I get to install NT - I refuse to do it
I actually have exactly this problem. In that I cannot get a W2K to reliably work as a replacement for our Netware 3.12 server in order to operate SIMS. But the new SQL stuff isn't supported running on a proper SQL server. Interestingly it's only the 95 workstations which have a problem communicating with this server, smbclient has no problem recognising it. Both Microsoft and the LEA people have little idea why it shouldn't work.
as I don't have the time to spare to learn how to do it. If I could see *any* technological advantage in doing so I would have to consider it seriously. I won't go into the rest of the arguments pro/con which we keep rehashing here. I do know that if I ever do get forced into getting involved in NT/W2k I will miss the openness and freedom of information I get using Open Source.
Virtually every time I have to deal with a piece of Windows software (especially if it's from Microsoft) I am left feeling as though I would be better off headbutting a wall. (The only notable exceptions have been Techsoft and Avco Systems.) -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763
hi all adding to the debate, here is the synopsis of a BESA report on illegal software use carried out in 1999 (and repeated last year), on the Becta web site. Wonder who the sponsors of the report were ? Malcolm Half of schools found licensing overly complex. The main problems were reported as being the variety of different licence agreements and confusing language in documentation. Many teachers were unsure whether and under what circumstances copying of software was allowed. Half of teachers believed that it was acceptable to copy software for classroom use. Copying for home use or copying for a colleague was thought to be acceptable by about a fifth of teachers. Ten per cent of teachers thought it acceptable to lend colleagues software when not in use by the licence holder. Half of primary schools and a quarter of secondary schools were unaware of the penalties they might incur for use of unlicensed software. Secondary schools were concerned about others using unlicensed software because they felt that the outcome would be more expensive software products. Schools were unsure how easy or difficult it might be to identify schools using unlicensed software, but the majority thought it might be difficult. Just under half of ICT co-ordinators reported that they would not know who to ask for advice. Of the others, most said that they would turn to local authority ICT centres and advisers. Organisations such as the Federation Against Software Theft (FAST) or the British Educational Suppliers Association (BESA) are unlikely to be consulted. Only a small minority of schools across the UK has ever discussed licensing at governors? meetings, and few schools indicated that they had plans to do so. The majority of schools thought it would be illegal for software distributors to sell unlicensed software. Schools indicated concern that their supplier might pass on unlicensed software. Generally, software distributors and producers were not felt to provide adequate information. A third of primary schools and half of secondary schools had procedures in place to ensure that software is licensed to the manufacturer?s requirements. On Thursday 12 July 2001 14:59, Mark Evans wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Coulton,G wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Mark Evans [mailto:mpe@st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk] Sent: 11 July 2001 14:36 To: Coulton,G Cc: 'Simon Wood'; Schools List Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] software in schools/piracy
Hi Simon,
I think something came across my desk in relation to Linux
a while back. The
reason we didn't respond is because :-
a) Trying to manage the network growing as quick as most
High Schools
netwrks is very time consuming (to give you an idea I have
123 computers to
set up using some form of OS, a language lab with 32
machines, interactive
whiteboards and another computer room all before
September). To change or
look at something as (I hesitate to use this word) radical
as Linux is a big
step and eXTREMELY time consuming, where as I'm sure you'll
agree - adding
an NT Box as a BDC to the network is extremely simple :)
Since when is a BDC a workstation?
I'm talking about workstations! I'm talking about adding a Linux Server as opposed to an NT / W2K / XP Server
snip
I had to add my mite here as I don't agree at all. Your argument assumes you are moving from NT and learning Linux. I could set up a Linux server much quicker. It is only eXTREMELY time consuming if you start from knowing nothing about it. I would have the same problem in reverse if I
Possibly it's more time consuming for someone knowing only NT, which would only apply to relative newcomers anyway...
ever succumbed to the suggestions I get to install NT - I refuse to do it
I actually have exactly this problem. In that I cannot get a W2K to reliably work as a replacement for our Netware 3.12 server in order to operate SIMS. But the new SQL stuff isn't supported running on a proper SQL server.
Interestingly it's only the 95 workstations which have a problem communicating with this server, smbclient has no problem recognising it.
Both Microsoft and the LEA people have little idea why it shouldn't work.
as I don't have the time to spare to learn how to do it. If I could see *any* technological advantage in doing so I would have to consider it seriously. I won't go into the rest of the arguments pro/con which we keep rehashing here. I do know that if I ever do get forced into getting involved in NT/W2k I will miss the openness and freedom of information I get using Open Source.
Virtually every time I have to deal with a piece of Windows software (especially if it's from Microsoft) I am left feeling as though I would be better off headbutting a wall. (The only notable exceptions have been Techsoft and Avco Systems.)
-- ------------------------------------ Malcolm Herbert Red Hat Europe t:+44 1483 734955 m:+44 7720 079845 ------------------------------------
participants (4)
-
Coulton,G -
Giles Nunn -
Malcolm Herbert -
Mark Evans