https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974 User francesco.cosoleto@libero.it added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974#c1 --- Comment #1 from Francesco Cosoleto 2008-06-30 03:16:22 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=225071) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=225071) Italian translations, svn diff patch -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974 User francesco.cosoleto@libero.it added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974#c3 Francesco Cosoleto changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|FIXED | --- Comment #3 from Francesco Cosoleto 2008-07-15 03:26:56 MDT --- Yes, I know that old problem, Does it really occur using Yast? It could be managed by Yast self using a transliteration routine... Now I submit a new patch to fix more typos errors and the unmodified revision dates. I should like see an update on the repository and I recommend it, but I think more revisions are coming/necessary. Next correction I am proposing is to translate "default". Normally "Default" is translated in Italian language as "Predefinito". Examples: Microsoft Windows, Free Translation Project (http://tp.linux.it/glossario.html), KDE (http://kde.gulp.linux.it/wiki/index.php/Glossario_KDE)... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974 User francesco.cosoleto@libero.it added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974#c5 --- Comment #5 from Francesco Cosoleto 2008-07-15 03:29:00 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=227791) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=227791) svn diff lcn -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974 User andrea@opensuse.org added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974#c6 andrea florio changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #6 from andrea florio 2008-07-15 03:47:33 MDT --- Hi Francesco, all this works, even if i like your work, is really unusefulll now, i commit your fist changes, but now, we are working on openSUSE 11.1 so poes could change also any day, your patches could not be applied. I'll tacke you on mind when we'll start to translate openSUSE 11.1 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974 User francesco.cosoleto@libero.it added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974#c8 --- Comment #8 from Francesco Cosoleto 2008-07-15 05:02:15 MDT --- Ok. All it's postponed but will fixed. About the uppercase question, in English uppercase usage is different from Italian style. It's considered a common error keep uppercase in menu items ("Not Configured" -> "Non configurato", "Items on the Search Menu" -> "Opzioni del menu Cerca"). Have you examples of high quality software translated not following this rule? BTW I have fixed uppercase of a message in zypp.it.po: #: ../zypp/solver/detail/ProblemSolutionIgnore.cc:52 #, c-format msgid "Ignore some dependencies of %s" -msgstr "iignora alcune dipendenze di %s" +msgstr "Ignora alcune dipendenze di %s" but the original appears contradictory about uppercase and lowercase usage. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974 User alberto.passalacqua@tin.it added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974#c10 Alberto Passalacqua changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |alberto.passalacqua@tin.it --- Comment #10 from Alberto Passalacqua 2008-07-15 13:20:24 MDT --- Dear Francesco, 1) We already translate "Default" as "Predefinito", even though "Default" is a well known and widely used word, and in certain contexts it is more clear. 2) The upper case styling is a choice and not a typo. It has nothing to do with the specific language, and as I tried to explain already, we need first of all clarity, and then formal correctness. For example in the sentence: "Opzioni del menu Cerca", "Cerca" ha the capital letter to report _exactly_ how the entry appears in the menu. It is a common convention, used in various software. As Andrea explained the choice is to use exactly the same syntax used in the original text, even for capitalization if it doesn't conflict with some specific language rule. To conclude and to save you work, as a general policy, cosmetic fixes won't be applied to the current release of openSUSE. Only bugs which might create ambiguity and/or problems to the user will be fixed for it. Of course they will be considered by the translation team for the following release. I agree with Andrea on marking this bug as WONTFIX. Thanks, Alberto -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974 User andrea@opensuse.org added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974#c12 --- Comment #12 from andrea florio 2008-07-16 08:48:41 MDT --- well... that changes, cosmetics or not cannot be applyed now, svn is in development. As i told you, i will be onorate to heve you on suse 11.1 translation team. We will choose rules and we'll follow them. right now all this fix MUST BE POSTPONED. so please don't waste time now, once we could start with translation, if you wish, you'll join us. But remember: FIRST OF ALL : real bug fixing are accept immediatly, like that one: msgid "Ignore some dependencies of %s" -msgstr "iignora alcune dipendenze di %s" +msgstr "Ignora alcune dipendenze di %s second : cosmetics changes are the LAST thing will do, we usally have not enought time to translate suse. 3rd : if you will join team, please make attention to Uppercase stuffs... things like: "Usa il menù Cerca" is different that "Usa il menù cerca" because using uppercase we want to make in evidence the name on menù button -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974 User francesco.cosoleto@libero.it added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974#c14 --- Comment #14 from Francesco Cosoleto 2008-07-18 08:27:37 MDT --- (In reply to comment #13 from Alberto Passalacqua)

the bug is market as WONTFIX because it is against 11.0, and I think it should not be fixed at all, but the choice is not mine anymore hopefully.

What? I don't understand. Do you really want keep blunders in 11.1 too? "Perchè", "pò", "files" instead of "file", etc. Are you really saying to me that? I repeat: WONTFIX is wrong. Bugs reported in 10.3 but fixed in 11.0 are close with the 'FIXED' flag, not 'WONTFIX'.

- "default" is widely used in the IT ecosystem, and it is also widely used in a lot of Windows/Linux commercial applications. Sometimes it's simply better not to translate it because "predefinito" simply doesn't fit. You don't need to be a server administrator to know the meaning of "default".

You have written: «We already translate "Default" as "Predefinito"». fra@foscolo:~> awk="awk '{ c += \$1 }; END {print c}'" fra@foscolo:~> grep -hriP '(?ms)^msgstr.*?^#' coreutils-6.12/po/it.po | grep -ci 'predefinit[aeio]' | $awk 13 fra@foscolo:~> grep -hriP '(?ms)^msgstr.*?^#' coreutils-6.12/po/it.po | grep -ci 'default' 1 fra@foscolo:~> grep -hriP '(?ms)^msgstr.*?^#' /tmp/kde-i18n-it-3.5.9/messages/ | grep -v '^#' | grep -ci 'predefinit[aeio]' | $awk 809 fra@foscolo:~> grep -hriP '(?ms)^msgstr.*?^#' /tmp/kde-i18n-it-3.5.9/messages/ | grep -v '^#' | grep -ci 'default' | $awk 18 fra@foscolo:~> grep -hriP '(?ms)^msgstr.*?^#' evolution.HEAD.it.po | grep -v '^#' | grep -ci 'predefinit[aeio]' | $awk 68 fra@foscolo:~> grep -hriP '(?ms)^msgstr.*?^#' evolution.HEAD.it.po | grep -v '^#' | grep -ci 'default' 1 fra@foscolo:~> grep --exclude-dir=.svn -hriP '(?ms)^msgstr.*?^#' lcn/it/po/ yast/it/po/ | grep -v '^#' | grep -ci 'predefinit[aeio]' | $awk 256 fra@foscolo:~> grep --exclude-dir=.svn -hriP '(?ms)^msgstr.*?^#' lcn/it/po/ yast/it/po/ | grep -v '^#' | grep -ci 'default' | $awk 170

- The use of capitalization is a choice of style, and again, it has nothing to do with proper Italian. Pick a good grammar and check.

No, you are wrong. Capitalization is orthography, not simply a style matter. You can not use capital letters with no rule, except if you want get a bizarre effect ("Così. per Fare un Esempio, Molto banale."). And so you send a different message. Oh, sure. You can pick up a grammar book and check. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974 User alberto.passalacqua@tin.it added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=404974#c16 --- Comment #16 from Alberto Passalacqua 2008-07-18 10:39:27 MDT --- Dear Francesco, I think what you wrote and the tone you're using speaks for themselves. Anyway, to clarify: - You didn't read carefully what I wrote. The MISTAKES will be fixed in 11.1. I would not fix cosmetic changes like "e' -> è", but as I said, I don't coordinate translations anymore, so I won't decide. In my opinion there are higher priority tasks to complete when translating a distribution, like for example, having a complete and not confusing translation. The bug is marked as WONTFIX but being SOME of the changes accepted, they will be in 11.1. A fix for 11.0 won't come because it's not a critical problems. - "Default" is usually translated as "predefinito". As I said in SOME occasion it's not translated (we have an almost fully untranslated module in YaST for example, which is the /etc/sysconfig Editor, and it's a choice to leave it that way). There are reasons why "default" was left untranslated there, and it was to avoid ambiguity. It doesn't surely reduces clarity because "default" is also in an updated Italian dictionary, it is widely used in electronic devices (cell phones) and in other tools like microwave ovens. - Capitalization is a question of orthography when you don't use it properly for personal names, city names and so on. But it is commonly used in titles, software names, or when you want to underline the importance of something. It is the case in certain help descriptions, where even in Windows the menu entries are capitalized to help the reader to locate them immediately. The same is done for example in YaST. As I said there might be some inconsistency to be fixed, but again that's not a critical problem because it doesn't compromise functionality and security. To conclude in a funny way, citing our great Danish translation team coordinator (cb400f): "The coordinator is always right" ;-) With kind regards, Alberto -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.