On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 17:00:48 -0400, Dirk Gently wrote:
I'm merely stating historical facts which are well document in the archives of this list.
Your objection is that I wrote something which isn't all happy happy joy joy about the KDE4 team.
No. My objection is that you decided to engaged in a protracted personal attack against one member of the KDE4 team. By your own account, they "admitted" their error. You seem to want them to undo something that can't be undone.
What they have accomplished so far, is admirable. However, the team has an established history of displaying an attitude which totally sucks.
Returning an attitude that you say "totally sucks" with an attitude that totally sucks itself doesn't accomplish anything. Do you really think they're going to listen to you? Do you think regular users are going to take you seriously?
The purpose of my original reply to the OP was to give him a REALISTIC expectation as to whether the functionality he wants will ever be brought back into KDE4 after they spent so much work ripping out a lot of KDE3 mechanisms.
Your original reply was useful. Your follow up was not. [...]
In actual fact, It was about 2.5 to 3 years before KDE4 became truly acceptable for use by novice users with the release of KDE 4.7 -- This is not my assessment, this is the assessment of many early adopters of KDE4, writing on this very list.
Yes. And now we're past all that. It's usable now for many people; you disagree. Fine, agreement isn't required.
Like most people, some of my greatest advances in life came from the willingness to admit that I had been wrong, and to EMBRACE the idea of correcting my earlier mistakes.
So certainly you can see that lashing out isn't helping your cause. You seem like an intelligent guy. You might get more traction by, rather than being rude and pissing people off, focusing on the issues.
Whether it regards KDE4 and the KDE4 team, or anything else, if you don't can't handle the truth, well, that's your own personal problem.
It doesn't matter whether I can "handle the truth". But I see this list as a part of the openSUSE community, and when the community degenerates into shouting rather than working to solve problems, then yes, I see that as a problem and it's something I would care to see addressed. Or we can just continue shouting at each other and calling each other names and make no progress at all. I assume you're here because you like openSUSE and want to see it succeed, yes? So if you want it to succeed, how exactly is engaging in personal attacks, name calling, and other juvenile behaviour helping the project succeed? It doesn't.
But how dare you heap your abuse on someone who is merely telling the truth which is relevant with regard to someone else's problem, simply because YOU are uncomfortable with that truth.
It's not a question of my comfort with the "truth". It's a question of how that "truth" is presented so that it can be addressed as a legitimate problem (and I'm going to assume that it is, but reasonable people can perhaps disagree on that). Your approach does not further the goal of addressing the problem. Your approach makes the problem worse because it turns people away from the discussion. So again, I assume you want things to improve. I'm suggesting a way of improving things that actually causes people to discuss the /issues/ without getting emotional about them. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org