Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (3572 mails)

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[opensuse] Novell Microsoft Deal Hunting Novell (was: OpenSUSE's New Tech Evangelist
  • From: Philippe Landau <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:00:03 +0100
  • Message-id: <47B0A943.5070909@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sylvester Lykkehus wrote:
On 2008-02-11 18:03, Philippe Landau wrote:
Interview: OpenSUSE's New Tech Evangelist
The interview is good, as are the answers.
However, what drew my attention most was the comments.
Every single one of them is about the Novell/Microsoft deal, and not in
the flattering way.

I am surprised to see that this is still a 'hot topic', since I mostly
felt the hot air had already left that balloon.
You are right the comments are lively and heartfelt.

Novell never dealt with it in an open way.
They are trying to deal with the backlash
with conventional PR: coverup and whitewash,
which is not working in a community
built on open information exchange.

As long as it looks like there was corruption involved,
Novell needs to investigate if it wants to gain trust.
Also of course the deal needs to be revised:
Petition Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement

The quality of Novell's software deserves better.

Kind regards Philippe



Anonymous Wed, 2008-02-06 04:44

The community need Novell to get out of bed with Microsoft and to fire
that Microsoft shill Miguel.

Come back when you can arrange that.

Kim 'The_Pirate' Christensen Wed, 2008-02-06 05:43

Either Novell/SuSE comes clean on the Microsoft deal, or there is a
issue that will not go away.

The amount of lost trust is immense. Our LUG has officially stopped all
support of SuSE due to the Microsoft issue. And, until we get a very
clear and credible explanation, it stays that way.

And we won't deal with Miguel anymore. Period.

Anonymous Wed, 2008-02-06 07:19

I was considering trying openSUSE at home, since I'm already running
Kubuntu, but the Novell deal with Microsoft killed that idea for me. As
for Miguel's 'contributions', naming Mono after an unwanted disease is
an appropriate name for technology the FLOSS community didn't really
need. Miguel has shown many times over the last two to three years that
he's not the friend to the community that many people seem to think.
When Novell stops encumbering their software with agreements with
Microsoft, I might consider looking at their Linux distros. Until then,
it doesn't matter how good they are, my distro of choice will be
something else. Yes, I realize Kubuntu isn't totally free software, but
at least they're open and up front about it, which I can respect.

simfox Wed, 2008-02-06 08:36

Sorry, Joe:
I used to value your articles and insightful analysis. What in the world
has come over you? Shilling for Microsoft, defending Miguel and Nat in
the face of their anti-community actions. I am very disappointed in you
-- just another sell-your-soul-to-the-highest-bidder it seems. Enjoy
those 30 pieces of silver while you can.

mother Wed, 2008-02-06 08:51

Get that stupid microsoft crap out of your software now you morons.
Until that happens you are not going to get any community respect you
cretins. now go away forever you stupid bunch of novell idiots.

Anonymous Wed, 2008-02-06 09:24

The Novell-Microsoft deal has cost Novell far more, I think, then they
realize. Linus started -- and continues -- as a "grass roots" effort.
This includes those developers that may be paid by companies to
contribute. Their companies are smart enough not to pressure the
developers strongly to have an agenda contrary to the community.

That deal will continue to cost Novell community support. Yes, it may
make some enterprise deals, but then, FLOSS isn't about selling
software. In the end, Novell will have lost more than it gains.

Microsoft has consistently (over many years) demonstrated their
willingness to cross moral and legal lines to accomplish their
objectives, usually capturing a market (which usually involves the
"unfortunate" demise of one or more competitors). They view FLOSS as a
competitor and want to do "the usual". No matter what they say, they
have not changed.

Remember that your mother used to tell you to be careful what friends
you hung out with? Guess what -- Microsoft is the wrong kind of "friend".

Joe, I have valued your articles in the past. By aligning yourself with
Novell -- who has aligned themselves with Microsoft -- you have already
damaged your reputation.

lordshipmayhem Wed, 2008-02-06 10:04

Until Novell/SuSE gets out of bed with Microsoft, I won't know what kind
of potential legal liabilities I would be inheriting by installing SuSE
- so I don't recommend it's install by any of my clients.

I find Miguel de Icaza to be more a shill for proprietary software than
an advocate of Open Source, making him monumentally unfit to play a
senior role in any Linux distribution or Open Source software project.

Dump the Microsoft deal and any resulting code.
Dump the Microsoft shills.
Then we'll talk about rebuilding bridges to the Linux movement.

Anonymous Wed, 2008-02-06 10:19

i have been loyal to novell since netware 3.11. i am a cne and when
novell bought suse i converted the novell servers to suse and continued
with our groupwise applications, however, since the microsoft deal:

i have removed groupwise.
i have removed all the novell netware.
i have removed all the suse servers.
i have replaced the suse servers with centos.

i admired novell during the SCO fiasco but apparently somewhere along
the line novell has lost its' soul.


JonP Wed, 2008-02-06 10:55

Unfortunately, OpenSuSE is associated with Novell. Novell is partnering
with Microsoft which has used Intellectual Property as one of its
weapons. I cannot take the chance that some Microsoft code may find its
way into OpenSUSE, leaving me vulnerable. The Microsoft lion may be
laying down with the Novell lamb, but I hope that the lamb keeps in mind
what the lion eats.

erehwon Wed, 2008-02-06 11:02

I wrangle a very small network. One, (count 'em) Windows2K machine, and
six to eight Linux machines. Those machines ran several different
distros, Open SUSE among them. None of them ran GNOME, because I have
had issues concerning Miguel D'Icaza for quite some time. The day the
Micro$oft agreement with Novell was announced, I removed SUSE from the
two machines running it, and replaced it with CentOS. Along with the two
machines already set up with CentOS, they act as the four main work
stations in my system. The other machines are testing machines, destined
to be given away to folks who could not otherwise afford a decent
computer. I have one machine running the newest Open Mandriva, but the
other machines are running Debian based distros -- Mepis, or Kubuntu,
and one with an XFCE distro.

I certainly tend to agree with other posters, above, that until Novell
renounces their agreement with Micro$oft, and removes Miguel from any
position of influence, higher than, say, file clerk, or warehouse labor,
SUSE, and GNOME will never be part of my systems, nor will they ever be
installed on any machine that goes through my shop.

Needless to say, I feel strongly about the issues, and have no moral
problem with evangelizing my views, and expounding on the reasons I hold

Further, I concur with the poster above who wished you luck with those
thirty pieces of silver.

Bigchris Wed, 2008-02-06 11:34

I cut my Linux teeth on Suse and have always admired the fine
engineering that went into its creation. I used to buy each new release
as soon as it became available. But I have left Suse for Red Hat and
will not return while Novell continues to cooperate with Microsoft or
continues to employ Miguel. I hate seeing Suse suffer because of Novell
management's stupidity, but Linux is based on trust and Novell
management has forfeited that.

Mark C. Mason Wed, 2008-02-06 11:46

I am split on Novell. On the one hand,
they did the FLOSS community a great,
and expensive, service by helping put SCO
in their place.

On the other hand, the Microsoft deal
overshadows and complicates everything
that comes from Novell going forward.

I wish you good luck, Novell; you're going to
need it. Please consider rejoining the ranks
of the FLOSS community.

Weeble Wed, 2008-02-06 15:01

"...Microsoft hasn't been full of warm fuzzies for the
community...customers worried about Linux's perceived legal risks."

Joe, you have just shot yourself in both feet.

1) You can't soften the fact that Microsoft is out to destroy Linux in
any way they can by using expressions like "Microsoft hasn't been full
of warm fuzzies". MS has never been a fair player in the market and
never will be until a radical change takes place in the ethos of the
management team. I mean radical change on the order of Saul the
Pharisee's conversion that led to his becoming the Apostle Paul.
"Windows interoperability" has always ultimately meant a one-way
interoperability from anything else to Microsoft. I see no changes to
that ethos on the horizon.

2) There would BE no "perceived legal risks" pertaining to Linux except
for the FUD created by Microsoft. (I agree with those who believe that
The SCO Group has been a Microsoft sock puppet, even though direct
evidence linking them is sketchy at best.) Take the Microsoft (including
SCO) factors out of the legal risk FUD about Linux and you have no
perceived legal risks.

I don't know whether you are a shill, a sock puppet, a fifth columnist,
a dupe or what. But until Novell gets out of its present bed with
Microsoft and either establishes a FUD-free PUBLIC agreement with them
or ends it altogether, the "Microvell" agreement is GOING to be a
continuing factor (a negative one) in Novell's relationship with the
FLOSS community. That's just a fact of life.

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