I'm not a programmer, and have no formal skills in computers. I learned to install linux and found the failure rate of installs far less likely then I had experince in Windows on repeated attempts. I was a bit lost, but no more than when I first started to use Windows. Fact of the matter is that I have found that Linux is far more accessible under the hood that WIndows. If I want to change something in Windows I have to go through at least 3 or 4 layers to get to it - at that's the fast route. In Linux, open up google, do a search, find the answer to the problem 9 out of 10 times. Open konsole, type su, password, pico <config file>, edit, done. WIndows. Go to control panel, click on icon, bring up wizard, tell it I will select the driver or what ever, point it to the cdrom/dir where upgrade or change is, click OK, click next, click next of point it to the right file or dir, click next, click next, click finish. If it works then fine. If it has a problem, possible lock up, possible uninstall/reinstall, possible patch needed. Printers and video cards can be especially vexing. The difference in Windows compared to Linux is that you don't have to think. I have lots of friends that are very intelligent. They are extemely successful. They are unaware that there are partitions other than C. They call me up and ask tell me "I know I have another 40 GBs left but when I try to install this program it says I have no more space - I'm confused, can you come over and help me". You see, poeple have been misled that a computer should be as a TV. Turn it on and it works. My Mother has had this impression and I have taught here that you need just a small amount of knowledge to help yourself. Now she rarely if ever calls me about a problem. She will tell me that something went wrong and she fixed it. Yes she uses Windows and yes I don't think that she's ready for Linux. But in a year of two. The Linux crowd and the Windows crowd are essentially about the old guard and the new wave. The old guard are those such as my mother. I can't see her needing to buy a new computer in the next 5 to 10 years, The new wave is the youth. They will learn computers in the same way I have, I learned both MAC and Windows at the same time because my computer room at the grad dorm had both and I didn't really care about what OS was there, I needed to write my papers. I found that I was more often helping the Win 3.1 users then those using the MAC with the same word processor on it. What make anyone think that if Linux would have been there that someone would have said they needed an MS box. They don't care, they just want to do their work. So, it's silly to argue that this OS is more easily used than the other to end-users with no clue about how computer work. They only need to and want to do the work and get on with it. Therefore, the only advantage Windows has is that it's an OEM package - it comes with the computer. If Linux were on the computer they would be in the same position as a new users with a windows box. Using the users guide and looking for the icon to start the word processor, browser, etc... The problem I personally find with your posts is not that you have a point of view that differs from mine or others. I worry when there are no differences in viewpoints or ideas. The problem I have is that your posts have an aggresive tone that inbues a sense of "I'm right, your all clueless, and I will shout until you concede to my worldview". You have repeatedly posted to the list your comments in a manner that is defeatist and confrontational. This is not the Havard debate forum. It's a users help list. If those that develop for Linux listened to all the nay-sayers and doubters then the code that makes up Linux would probably still be sitting on Linus' HDD somewhare in Finland. The fact of the matter is that Linux is going to become what people make it. It will undoubtedly become a viable desktop alternative, if to no other extent then the MAC is. Honestly, You really think your comments are going to effect the development of Linux? Considering the negative tone in the majority of your posts that seem void of any sort of constructive views on what in Linux should or shouldn't be, Why would anyone bother to take your comments seriously? Your not giving suggestions or voicing anything other than "Linux should give up on the Desktop or anything other than web and file servers. Well, I'm sorry to inform you but this isn't going to happen. Linux will become available to the end-users, maybe not this year, but in the not to distant future, there are too many bright and talented people all around the world that will make sure it does. I have no doubt or lack of faith in this what so ever. So, I really don't care to entertain negative and derogatory comments. Critism and expressing frustrations I look forward to, it helps to get a feel and keep in touch and futhermore is used to futher the refinements. Just MHO. Curtis.