On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Ben Rosenberg wrote:
br> Hello,
br>
Ben, you stated these facts very eloquently, I'd like to throw one more
log on the fire though in regards to release dates. Look at Microsoft,
when was the last time you saw an OS from MS being released on time, all
that is is an OS with a few minor apps thrown in with it. With all their
billions of dollars, they can't seem to hit the release dates either. Now
look at SuSE who's not only packaging the OS but close to 2000 additional
packages and all their nicely written scripts to make everything play so
nice together.
Someone may say that's not all that tough, but like Ben pointed out, try
putting a distro together yourself and see how hard it is to set up, it's
not that easy. It's definately an experience I would recommend to someone
wanting to learn ALLOT more about linux, but is it necessary? No. That's
why I use SuSE, they've done about everything I would have done myself
(although I'm still waiting for the newer ghostscript stuff
or even the .spec file they used to compile it).
br> I applaud you for being frugal with your dollar. In this day and age
br> things add up quickly and most people can't just sling money around.
br> It's good to buy what you need instead of following hype.
br>
br> If you are angry that 7.0 doesn't have the 2.4 kernel..well, no one
br> can due much about that because it was promised to be out and
br> well..it's not. That would be a Linus thing and he is the only one
br> to be angry at for this. SuSE started a development cycle with it in
br> mind that it would be out. SuSE can not just halt production on a
br> product because one of the piece they wished to include was not
br> available. You will be able to use the 2.4 kernel in 7.0 because
br> SuSE will give you the tools to do so.
br>
br> What sort of bad treatment are you talking about? SuSE has had the
br> same method of release as long as I have been using the software
br> (5.0) and that is just the way it is. SuSE schedule is very tight,
br> but things such as U.S. customs being a pain in the arse is
br> something that NO one can do anything about, they held up "release
br> schedules ". You can not blame SuSE for these types of problems.
br> When your product sits and sits because of Government redtape and
br> other such crap..them is just the brakes. SuSE very carefully
br> thinks out the release schedule and makes sure all the i's are
br> dotted and all the T's are crossed, but sometimes "shit happens".
br>
br> The encryption laws have NOTHING to do with why it's released in
br> Europe before it's released in the U.S. Do you think leaving one
br> directory off the CD's could cause these delays? Come on I think you
br> are smarter then that.
br>
br> Well, I would say that SuSE is a business. You claim to be a
br> businessman and to be good with your money. Do you have any idea how
br> much effort and money goes into putting together all of the
br> software, scripts and various other things that go into a
br> distribution...? Well, I didn't. Now I do. It's a lot of time,
br> effort and energy that most people don't want to undertake. To put
br> together 1900 package w/ all the strings that bind it together cost
br> quite a bit, so you really can't blame SuSE for thinking of paying
br> customers a little before hand. All the software that's there can be
br> put together into a distribution and loaded onto a machine by anyone
br> who chooses to do so.
br> I just think that's why people buy a box w/ CD's..because it's too much
br> trouble to put this stuff together themselves.
br>
br> So you saying people are being punished because they don't want to
br> buy the software to pay the developers for their time and they
br> didn't want the software anyways..but in case they change their
br> minds and want to upgrade anyways they should be able to.
br> You say "As long as you have a customer you want to keep him" well,
br> a customer is someone who buys goods and services...not someone who
br> gets freebee's. I don't mean to offend you, but your choice of
br> words is just not correct. Just because I got a copy of Solaris X86
br> for free at Linuxworld does not make me a Sun customer. It makes me
br> someone who got the software for free. Should I be pissed because I
br> can't get so some patches for it because they are on a passworded
br> pay only site at Sun...umm...no. I shouldn't be and I am not.
br>
br> Yeah, you are exactly right that most of SuSE's customers won't have
br> a highspeed connection which is exactly why they have always given
br> multiple CD's with everything and the kitchen sink on them, so that
br> people didn't have to spend valuable download $$ in order to try a
br> piece of software.
br>
br> Well, I don't think that your seeing the big picture as far as the
br> pricing is concerned. SuSE has not raised their prices in several
br> years but yet has continued to grow and the cost of living has
br> continued to increase, so after 5 or so years of not raising prices
br> they decide to do so..you CAN'T possibly fault them for that. If you
br> look at the value you get for Redhat's professional version ($170.00
br> U.S) and what you get with SuSE 7.0-Pro. You wouldn't be making
br> these statements. If you run Oracle you would be paying a huge
br> amount for Redhat's Oracle ready version..while SuSE 7.0 Pro gives
br> you all of this for your "$70.00". SuSE gives 1000% more then many
br> other distributions out there for pennies on the dollar.
br>
br> SuSE can't really stop you from being pissed off. I just think you
br> are getting way bent out of shape when you don't completely realize
br> what people go through to get a product like this to market. You
br> also have to remember that from the time it's released to the time
br> that the outlets release it for sale can vary sometimes as well.
br> It's one big network that sometimes doesn't work as well as we would
br> all like it to but I think that a damn good job is being done under
br> the constraints of what their is too work with.
br>
br> I just want it to be said that these are my personal views on the
br> situation..from observations from the outside and from within.
br> Which is why it comes from this account.
br> --
br> Cheers,
br>
br> Ben Rosenberg
br> mailto:ben@whack.org
br> -------------------------
br> Warning to the Human Race:
br> Objects in mirror are dumber than they appear.
br>
br>
--
S.Toms - tomas@primenet.com - www.primenet.com/~tomas
SuSE Linux v6.4+ - Kernel 2.2.16
If someone had told me I would be Pope one day, I would have studied
harder.
-- Pope John Paul I
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