Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-testing (13 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-testing] CommunityWeek - Testing/QA Slot
  • From: "Rajko M." <rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 23:47:34 -0500
  • Message-id: <200905052347.35356.rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
On Tuesday 05 May 2009 08:26:03 pm Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Il giorno mar, 05/05/2009 alle 18.52 -0500, Rajko M. ha scritto:
On Tuesday 05 May 2009 10:38:19 am Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Probably the initial idea was a bit
too wide...


Yes it was, and hidden in nice presentation.

Probably. I still think it is what we need, not a bit less, to obtain

I agree on that one.
Goal is comprehensive testing, but we have to start somewhere.

First is to define smaller goals.
What would be that?
- testing features from openFATE that are implemented
Take few, list it, reserve it from - to and enjoy.
Ask for assistance on the list.
The scratch book could be openSUSE wiki.
- looking for bugs that need confirmation/assistance
Similar as above.
- defining area of interest, expertise, available hardware
Freedom to choose whatever we want is nice, but giving some rough
directions what one can test is better. Instead of asking on the list
does someone can confirm bug, it will be "hey Joe, do you have this?"

I'll extract points from presentation to normal wiki text.
The part I already did helped me to see that BugBusters would be just a
part of total testing.

Also, creating testing infrastructure is the way to attract contributors
that have no time nor skills, to develop their own.

No sorry. The stable testing team is for dedicated people with some
experience, as clarified in the slides.

I would add word "core" testing team.
We need more then few dedicated.

They have at least to know the
basics of Linux, how to report bugs, write tutorials and such. Of course
others on the long run can learn, but from who if nobody has that

Having plan (and infrastructure) that counts on occasional testers, like
Google image labeling counts on occasional contributors.
I have, still just gut feeling, that what you can see and try on
is possible with almost anything.

I don't think there is an analogy. There is not a basic infrastructure
like Google has. We _need_ people that _stably_ in the community perform

Like above. The goal and starting point can differ a lot.
The Google didn't have infrastructure for this just short time ago.

Make lists of tests, very small ones, and offer it randomly, within
topic/application. It is not necessary to create duel game style tests,
it will help a lot to describe one particular task and give expected
result, and ask what happened.

I don't want "random testing", that's what we have, and still it leaves
too much room to too many problems. Feel free to bring the idea on

The testing will be random from casual tester point of view, but it will cover
much more than it is covered now, when many people "test" just small fraction
of features that one can discover.

Besides, it will serve additional purpose of educating users about features.
That can be also motivation to play a game that will benefit everyone.

Users can find the ways to do things they did not suspect exist, openSUSE can
have statistics what users look for, how easy is to find features, what
functions work as expected, and what do strange things.

Instead of asking expertize and hours of user time, you get detailed
tests results with user having to spend 5-10 minutes per test.

Well, hours is what we need. In ten minutes you barely report the bug
you find on your way, and it is what we do already.
Hours don't need to be contiguous, but we need people that is willing to
spend some hour and not ten minutes on testing.

That people willing to spend hours can use their time better to create tests
for the rest, analyze results, and create new targeted tests for problematic

I think it is not useful to think it can be done "in ten minutes",
because it is unrealistic.

You know my comment about 10 minutes for bug report.
Almost each is asking for few hours.
From finding how to reproduce it, check upstream, downstream, left and right,
find someone with similar configuration, file bug report and followup with
openSUSE developers, file a comment, or two with upstream, check changes,
compile driver with debug enabled, and so on.

If we go with current system, we need people able to give away many hours +
interested + knowledgeable. That will unnecessary shrink number of candidates
to few that currently show interest.

When you add other divisions, KDE/GNOME and per subsystem, there will be no
worthwhile testing before number of testers grow to few hundreds.

Another idea, maybe creating named list of testers with contribution and moral
and material incentives can help to attract more those that keep their results
for them selves.


Regards, Rajko

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