Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (76 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] 2019-04-02 board meeting minutes
  • From: Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 20:30:47 +0200
  • Message-id: <CAA0b23wMMnEbDEE_Y=4qGRbGL3_bqx-WdHb7ZWwy1rpD5awi_A@mail.gmail.com>
On Sat, 20 Apr 2019 at 00:24, Stasiek Michalski <hellcp@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Let's go back in time, far far before all this happened, and explore
the darkest
scenario.

Let's not - 2011 was not a happy time, 2019 is.

Novell's commitment to openSUSE didn't stop them from signing agreement
with
Microsoft, which was not well recieved in the community. There are some
decisions which might seem like a good idea from "this will benefit
openSUSE"
PoV, but at the same time are "this will hurt other communities about
which we
care". Community after all are not just openSUSE evangelists, they are
people,
which contribute to stuff not only within the project, but also to the
entire
ecosystem of communicating vessels of open source software. I would
like to
understand, because I know it's impossible to go out into community and
ask
about an agreements before they are finalized, openSUSE elects a board,
is there
a policy to talk about such potential topic with them?

There is no formal policy, nor do I think it would be nice if we had one.

SUSE should not need to "seek permission" from openSUSE to conduct
it's business.
Inversely, openSUSE should not need to "seek permission" from SUSE to
conduct it's business.

The status quo that we live in today is that neither SUSE nor openSUSE
has any formal need to inform the other of any new activities.
Obviously, we're partners and we act as such, and so there is an
expectation that if there is any action, on either side, which risks
impacting the other, such talks are had.

eg. SUSE contacting openSUSE to assuage concerns when the EQT deal was
announced (and the HPE deal, and the Micro Focus deal..)
openSUSE did the same when the Project merged Tumbleweed/Factory.
And you can see the coming together of efforts that launched Leap as
both an example of SUSE informing openSUSE, or openSUSE informing
SUSE, depending on your point of view (both are equally valid).

But I do not share such positive views regarding all of SUSE's
products.
Across significant parts of SUSE's portfolio there is a noticeable
absence of any effort to foster the same kind of productive
Community+Company collaboration that we are used to in openSUSE.
It is my strong personal view that SUSE needs execute better in this
regard, for its own benefits as much as for assisting the vibrancy and
general good health of the openSUSE Project.

Studio is calling, it would like its code open :P

Studio is no longer sold commercially by SUSE, with customers directed
towards using the same OBS w. Studio Express we are lucky to have on
https://build.opensuse.org

I'm doing what I can to get old Studio opened; it requires a lot of
work to clean up the code suitably for release - and it's not easy to
get volunteers for that effort when the pool of people who know the
code is tiny, and understandably they'd rather people know and use
their fresh open code in Studio Express instead of the old stuff.

And while SUSE of course has it's heart in the right place, it's hard
to justify spending actual person-hours on something which has and
will never again have any commercial benefit what-so-ever.

Again, I don't want openSUSE to be dependant on such exceptionalism -
we need the Project to be able to stand on it's own two feet.

Heroes are doing what they can to improve the state, but that's
absolutely true

The Heroes are a few, and exceptionally good at what they do, working
in difficult circumstances.
I said, I don't want openSUSE to be dependant on such exceptional few.

worst of all, they don't have access to some critical stuff, like
bugzilla-o-o,
forums-o-o, www-o-o, instead relying on Micro Focus to manage that
properly.

Indeed, but all the incidents tracked since at least December on
status.opensuse.org involve systems that don't rely on MicroFocus.
I know it's always tempting to point fingers at a more distant, less
communicative, less involved supporter than SUSE who we all work with
closer, but MicroFocus have done a very good job of keeping openSUSE's
lights on. We suffered next to no disruption during the transition of
SUSE's ownership from MF, which really should be considered
positively.

Let's rag on openSUSE for a second here. <snip: lots of suggestions>

But why? It encourages to contribute to the software which you can run
on you
favourite distro afterwards :D

No it doesn't - something built in OBS for Fedora or Ubuntu isn't
magically suddenly available for openSUSE. Other distributions have
other standards (I would argue lesser ones), and we shouldn't
compromise openSUSE's quality needlessly.

And keep in mind openSUSE contains a trademark inside of its name, I
wonder how that will go :/

The people involved in the discussions at this early date have started
exploring this issue, and suggestions of some form of legal agreement
between SUSE and whatever-form-openSUSE-takes seem to be a possible
solution to that problem.

Early days yet though - a lot of the details depend on what the
community wants - hence the need to refine the options iteratively.
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