Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (349 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Introducing the Freight Train
  • From: Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 19:58:37 +0200
  • Message-id: <20120510175837.GP15516@hera>
On 2012-05-10 17:16:37 (+0200), Jos Poortvliet <jos@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Thursday 10 May 2012 11:10:26 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2012-05-10 08:58, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
so the choices are usually simple - go with what the maintainers want,
end of discussion ;-)

That is not necessarily the best technical path.

But the most pragmatic. In the real world, a technical superior solution
which doesn't exist (or is unmaintained) always looses from a hacky but
existing or maintained solution ;-)

Your argument there is what I would call "in the land of the
blind, the one-eyed man is king".
Comparing crap to something that doesn't exist isn't really a
comparison ;)

In the real world, what we should be striving for is a
technically superior solution (I didn't say perfect,
perfectionism is an -ism too) that exists and is maintained.

"A hack but existing solution" works on the short run but
quickly becomes unmaintainable, doesn't give any opportunity to
develop new ideas and ways to use it, doesn't attract any
contributors, etc...

If "a hack" is the kind of quality we're striving for, then goodbye.
It isn't, obviously.

"The best technical path" is often difficult to achieve as well,
it's always a balance.

Where we fail monumentally though, as so many projects, is in

Who has skills and experience in certain domains and can
contribute something to a topic ?

How do we keep people informed about the discussions that are
happening so they get a change to weigh in if they can
contribute something (too many tools, too many lists,
unfriendly tone) ?

That is, how to actually *reach out* for other, qualified
people's opinions: if we want the better technical solutions,
the better quality then that is what we must do, and what we
have to want.

Back to communication, and broadcasting information, and
talking/blogging about what you're doing.

Not everyone wants that, some just want to hack whatever they
want the way they want, especially if that's how they've always
worked (tunnel vision), and if those people in the openSUSE
community are just clueless noobs and death-by-bikeshedding
trolls, right? (Yes, I'm being ironic.)

Note that the former part of the above comes about quite often,
and we've all been guilty of that here and then (I'm not
excluding myself at all ;)).

In essence, it's about being a project and not just people in

That's why our communication channels are one of the most
important things and we must use them wisely, and protect them.

Leads us back to the recent thread about getting rid of
bikeshedding, trolls and vandals.

But also, especially on more technical topics, citing the german
philos^Wcomedian Dieter Nuhr: "wenn man keine Ahnung hat,
einfach mal die Fresse halten" (when you have no clue, just shut
Sounds rude, but the essence is important, and we mentioned
that in the past: before posting, especially on crowded threads,
think whether you are actually contributing something useful to
the discussion or not.

Yes, I know, tl;dr is an antipattern too :)

-o) Pascal Bleser
/\\ -- we haz green
_\_v -- we haz conf
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