Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (783 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Coming up with a good Policy ...
  • From: Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:35:05 +0200
  • Message-id: <200908051535.05733.l.lunak@xxxxxxx>
On Wednesday 05 of August 2009, Michael Meeks wrote:
One of the things that most interests me about this debate is the
excessive argumentation and extrapolation from whatever percentage of
install-base, to the idea that we should substantially offend our
growing Gnome community. Personally, I'm pretty annoyed by claims that
openSUSE is, or should be a KDE focused distribution, whatever it's
history - that at least is my bias.

Let me correct some factual errors you made:

- Although there were proposals that openSUSE should focus on KDE, they
appeared only very early in the discussion, and I don't think anybody now
still seriously proposes any special advantages for KDE that no other
openSUSE component would have.

- I also do not remember anybody now suggesting to offend the GNOME community
or treat them unfairly (at least not as a part of the proposal, ignore any

- On the contrary, there have been presented reasons that the current
situation is unfair and might be considered offensive by our KDE community.

Having said that - all this talk of "policy", and logic, reason,
marketing and so on suggests to me that this decision is a highly
charged, multi-disciplinary, nuanced - and *extremely* non-technical
one. In fact, it is hard to discern any technical issue here at all -
the code change in question is utterly trivial, even for my basic ycp
skills :-)

I can explain to you the situation in very technical terms if you want:

- when openSUSE ships several competing components, the most suitable, or,
failing a clear solution for that, the most popular one is preselected - fact
- the desktop selection is not handled the same way, since there is not a
clear decision on the most suitable component, and the most preferred
component is not preselected - fact
- this creates an exception that is not present elsewhere - fact
- this exception grants GNOME an advantage - fact
- no other openSUSE component is granted such a(n obvious) advantage - fact
- giving something an exception that gives it an advantage can be considered
unfair by competing components (or even any other component) - fact
- as such openSUSE grants one of its components an unfair exception - logical
- openSUSE claims to be an open distribution where both KDE and GNOME are
equally welcome - conflict with above

Really, it's quite simple. If I still remembered it from the school, I could
probably write this in predicate logic and feed to Prolog to prove it
mathematically. And even if not, I think it's still quite clear for common
sense. Do not see the 'KDE' and 'GNOME' there if it helps, think 'A' and 'B'.

Indeed, to me this looks like a simple conflict between three opposed
view-points[1] "KDE default, no default, and GNOME default" - with
apparently no substantial chance of compromise, and seemingly a lack of
clarity around who is empowered to make the decision. Indeed - to me, it
seems like we have the obvious compromise position selected already.

The current proposal is a compromise. It is however not what you say, but the
view-points are "favour KDE, favour nobody, favour GNOME" and the suggested
solution is "favour nobody, remove exceptions and special rights", i.e. the
middle compromise. Please refer to my mail "openFATE feature #306967 , my KDE
summary" for further details if something is not clear about that.

Lubos Lunak
KDE developer
SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@xxxxxxx , l.lunak@xxxxxxx
Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 084 672
190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951
Czech Republic
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