Hello, Cristian, thank you for your comments.
a) pay or don't say anything -- it is just a excuse no, it is just a basic thing on software economics
No, in this context it is an excuse. I already have installed OS 10.3 so if I buy it it will not differ -- for good or bad. To buy a software I have to be sure: a) company is entirely responsible for what it sells b) I can trust the development in longer perspective c) it is not some kind of "scheme"
and if in case you had a tiny idea about the amount of work needed to do what you suggest you would agree.
Is there a reason that you insult me? From opensuse perspective I am a just a random user, but you don't know me -- so why do you say things like that? I work as a developer, for several years in financial IT sector and one thing is solid there -- no matter how fancy new version is it is useless if it does not work with current infrastructure (software/hardware/system). Opensuse is not Suse enterprise, ok, but why not make it more reliable?
it is very simple, the effort must be worth, because such thing will require thousands and thousands of man-hours be done and hence increase the cost of the product, not to mention that with all posible combinations of software packages is almost **impossible** to ensure that it will work!!
Cristian, I agree with you. However there is a difference: a) idea is bad, because it requires a lot of effort b) idea is good, but it requires a lot of effort ad.a) end of discussion ad.b) then we can think how to make things simpler
Support -- of course not. I am asking for providing such feature as sensitive upgrade (i.e. do not upgrade downgraded packages). Ensure -- user risk.
THink on the following :
a) will this feature be widely used so it is a nice thing for most users ?
It depends how good OS next version will be. If it works there is no need to looking back. But if not... As an example -- Opensuse 10.3, let's say I downloaded it, installed (just from the disc) and: 1) I cannot connect to samba servers 2) I cannot print anything 3) I assume I cannot work since sax crashes while detecting my video card 4) I cannot access my encrypted data (1), (2), and (4) is strictly related to backward compatibility. And I think that every user would like to: a) connect to servers just like she/he used to b) print just like she/he used to c) access her/his data like she/he used to It is not "could the titlebar be more orange, I like this color", but rather more basic thing -- using your own computer. I can work because I downgraded packages all related to those issues.
b) downgraded package depends on X , Y , Z library so those depend on A,B,C...Z so we have to keep them installed as well.. what about if the ABI of certain Key component changes ? how you ensure that will ever work ? what happends if f.e B comes from some third party repository or if C is no longer available and the functionality is now provided by "F" ? just use your imagination and create more combinations ok ? ;-) It is a no-win situation, it will break and leave a non working package in one way or another.
There is a winning strategy here, just take a look. Opensuse 10.2 -- I cannot print (because of cups). So I downgraded it manually, breaking all dependencies. Result -- yast does not work with downgraded cups but I can print. Now, opensuse 10.3 upgrade -- what situation is here? There is a package which is known to be downgraded, dependencies are broken. a) should new version be installed b) should current version be kept ? ad.a) what for, really? this is done right now. Result, all dependencies are ok, but I cannot print ad.b) dependencies are broken exactly like they were broken before (so no extra harm is done). Result -- I still can print I am not saying the algorithm for improving upgrade is trivial, but is doable and user would benefit from it. And speaking of manhours, which you mentioned before -- you (suse) get massive amount of work for free -- from developers, artists, testers, etc. volunteers in short, so instead of summing up the costs on your side, it is better to look how people can contribute again (*). But first of all -- there must be a will to do the change. Thanks for your time, have a nice day bye (*) no, patches are not everything :-)) -- Maciej Pilichowski --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org