Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-packaging (139 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-packaging] PulseAudio plans for suse 11.0
  • From: Adrian Schröter <adrian@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:26:20 +0100
  • Message-id: <200803130926.21878.adrian@xxxxxxx>
On Wednesday 12 March 2008 23:51:49 wrote Christian Morales Vega:
2008/3/12, Wade Berrier:

On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 18:07 +0100, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
> Marcus Rueckert wrote:
> > On 2008-03-12 17:45:05 +0100, Christian Morales Vega wrote:
> > > In any case what openSUSE will do is something must be cleared.
> > > For what I understood Gnome is going to use PulseAudio yes or yes.
> > > Upstream will port their apps to PulseAudio and openSUSE can't
> > > patch all of them, correct?
> > > GStreamer, xine... they can't have a default output for KDE and
> > > another one for Gnome. KDE4 will use Phonon, that can use xine or
> > > gstreamer like backend. Will KDE4 apps use PulseAudio when Phonon
> > > uses gstreamer and ALSA directly when Phonon uses xine? In the
> > > first case apps will have *two* per application volume controls
> > > (Phonon and PulseAudio)?
> > > Without a clear path this could be very confusing.
> >
> > ideally pulseaudio and phonon would be just wrapper for that
> > functionally inside alsa.
> Quoting the fedora-devel mail:
> > 6. If you have an application that uses ALSA, please make sure that
> > it doesn't hardcode ALSA driver names (i.e. something like "hw:0"),
> > it should use "default" instead, which is now being redirected to
> > "pulse", our plugin for libasound. Hardcoding ALSA device names
> > (besides "default") is a bug in your application anyway, so here you
> > have yet another reason to fix that!
> So there is an alsa plugin and if an application normally uses alsa
> it will transparently use pulseaudio. No application change
> required. Sounds sane to me. I wonder whether that also works for
> applications that support surround sound such as quake4 though.

I'm not sure either... but, if it fails, this would be an instance where
the real quake binary could be wrapped in a shell wrapper that also runs
'pasuspender' beforehand so that quake could use the hardware directly.

I brought this up on opensuse-packaging with the hope of preconfiguring
all apps (patching our packages to: create wrappers, modify default
config files, etc... ) so they would work with pulseaudio.

The goal: to be running any desktop environment, start up any
application that uses sound, have sound actually work (even when using a
cheap sound card that does no hardware mixing), and get all the features
of pulseaudio.

(I'm currently using one of those cheap cards, but am almost frustrated
at the point of buying a sound card that can mix 32 streams in hardware
just so I can hear pidgin beeps and hear flash video at the same time :)

You can't use the software mixing argument. dmix *works*, perhaps
doesn't works in all cases, but works. You have a sound card where
dmix doesn't works (isn't being used?) and PulseAudio mixing does?
Fine. But can you say for sure that PulseAudio mixing works for
*everybody*? Because a single user for which PulseAudio mixing doesn't
works and dmix works is enough to invalidate this argument.
(You are a Novell employer? So just search Takashi Iwai in the
building and he will fix your dmix problem for a free breakfast ;-)

I'm not against PulseAudio. But before patching packages like general
rule we should know the KDE Team posture about it. If it still is the
"it's just a Gnome thing" from the
only packages that should be touched are the ones that the Gnome Team
is already touching:

It is no problem to support a Phonon Pulseaudio plugin, but from my opinion it
would be just unneeded overhead by default for the average user. KDE learned
from the past and does not rely on any implementation like arts, pulseaudio,
gstreamer, nmm, .... anymore ;)

If you want to convince others to use pulseaudio also for KDE, you may want to
write a plugin ;)

Btw, is pulseaudio also supporting video ? Because Phonon is also the video
interface for KDE now.


/me wonders what acctually happened to NMM, it looked for me like the real big
solution for network related audio stuff quite some time ago.


Adrian Schroeter
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
email: adrian@xxxxxxx

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