Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-gnome (60 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-gnome] openSUSE Documentation site
  • From: Alan <alan.mcgovern@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:12:39 +0100
  • Message-id: <AANLkTi=-z-CbpCBfxF6ys9CdE2SmpULiBSa-Pa0Tnr6a@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Just cc-ing the list again as you dropped it out of your response accidentally.

You make it clear that there are commercial interests behind this,
while I trully believed that this case was based on "from the
community" and "to the community". I could be a dick right now and
take this to the forums and eventually try to leverage the public
opinion to favour it and destroy most arguments presents (or at least
try). But since it seems there are interests, as you clearly point,
and I quote:

" Especially when that customer wants to give me money "

Following the original thoughts from RMS about documentation in free
software, there's actually only one thing I can do: turn my back into
such villainy.
I can not be associated with such thing. Thanks for making it clear
for us, who care more about the community then exactly about the shark
interests (_on documentation_ ?!) of some.

No, not at all. I'm just making sure everyone realises that commercial
entities are part of the community. When making decisions on behalf of
the community you need to make sure that those decisions would be
agreeable to the majority of people from a wide range of cultures from
both a commercial and non-commercial background.

This clears pretty much a lot to me. Thank you, now I am enlightened.
And as a personal note, for someone who feels so much offense, you
really have no problem in using such word as your post clearly

When something is appropriate, I use it. It was the most appropriate
way of wording my concerns as to why 'rtfm' may be considered
insulting or inappropriate. If you felt that my email was
inappropriately worded then it served it's purpose. You now understand
exactly why I believe 'rtfm' is inappropriate for a documentation


If you felt vaguely offended or insulted while reading that paragraph
then you understand why RTFM is not a good choice. I really don't see
what it brings to the table other than 'fuck'. I'd also like to direct
your attention to the rather apt section 'Use and overuse' here: . Take note of how other distros and
other websites have banned (yes, *banned*) the usages of that phrase
as it's both unhelpful and unwelcoming. That's pretty much all I have
to add.


On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Nelson Marques <nmo.marques@xxxxxxxxx>
On Tue, 2010-10-26 at 17:59 +0100, Alan wrote:
If everyone here can say with a clean conscience that they have no
trouble saying the words "read the fucking manual" to anyone and
everyone who has a problem which can be solved by the docs then I
think rtfm is a great idea.

If you think that might cause offence, then maybe you should be
looking at ditching the name.

Read This Fine Manual

Phonetically: redifine manual /* they look so close */

Plus lots of other stuff... Some people will know it's 'Read the fking
manual' but we can present in another non-harmful way, and people can
still laugh about it.

Given the ammount of self-learning on this communities, I really think
it's dangerous and involves a risk to use it, but it work out very good!

But that's just me.


On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 5:32 AM, Rajko M. <rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Monday 25 October 2010 16:35:33 Nelson Marques wrote:

If someone who is placing work on helping with our goals has
chosen «RTFM», my role would be making «RTFM» look good and promote it
with the right message.

From your perspective F-word can be fun for non-native speakers, but try
translate RTFM to Portuguese and tell me what is positive in F part of
it. It
is a profanity. I'm sure that I will not tell to any person that I have
respect for, or I expect to be respected from, to see rtfm domain for

Well entrenched acronyms can be changed, but the price can be higher than
openSUSE can pay.

IMO, energy can be better used to fix the links and style sheet glitches
the .

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nelson marques

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