Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-features (411 mails)

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[openFATE 308497] Update to GRUB v2
Feature changed by: Markus K (KAMiKAZOW)
Feature #308497, revision 48
Title: Update to GRUB v2

openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by Thomas Schmidt (digitaltomm)
reject reason: 11.3 is already released
Requester: Important

openSUSE-11.4: Done
Requester: Important

Info Provider: Jakub Rusinek (liviopl)
Requested by: Jeff Mahoney (jeff_mahoney)
Product Manager: (Novell)
Project Manager: (Novell)
Engineering Manager: (Novell)
Partner organization:

Every single bug or feature that anyone has developed for GRUB 0.97 has
been rejected by the upstream project in favor of using GRUB 2. There
has been resisitence in the distribution community to switching boot
loaders, but this stalemate isn't going to go away. The code itself
isn't well written or well maintained. Adding a new feature involves
jumping through a lot of hoops that may or may not work even if you
manage to work around all the runtime limitations. For example, a fs
implementation has a static buffer it can use for memory management.
It's only 32k. For complex file systems, or even a simple journaled
file system, we run into problems (like the reiserfs taking forever to
load bug) because we don't have enough memory to do block mapping for
the journal so it needs to scan it for every metadata read. (Yeah,
GRUB v2 has a cleaner design, is modular, and it has support for
multiple architectures including i386, x86-64, and powerpc. Support for
ia64 is said to be forthcoming. EFI support is already there. More
importantly, it supports far more file systems and has native MD RAID
and LVM support. Adding support for a new file system is much easier,
cleaner, and has fewer limitations than with GRUB 0.97.

Business case (Partner benefit):
* Supportability - upstream bug fixes and development community
* Features - better fs support, native RAID and LVM support

#1: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-12-12 14:11:06)
The main issue with GRUB2 (trying it out with Kubuntu-9.10) seems that
the simple text config file "/boot/grub/menu.list" is replaced by
scripts in /etc/grub.d, so GRUB menu configuration is less obvious and
more auto-magical.  Changing order of entries, and customising the menu
becomes indirect, though it would appear possible to "simply" use the
40_custom script and disable the other scripts, which handle entries
for updated kernels.  Altering kernel options is done in similar way to
/etc/sysconfig files which allow setting of variables.
YaST Bootloader module would need reworking to be focussed on option
tweaks and listing installed kernels, and other OS's found.

#2: Michael Löffler (michl19) (2010-02-10 18:30:51)
Would we have a maintainer for GRUB2?

#3: Jakub Rusinek (liviopl) (2010-02-10 19:22:36)
Better appearance, localization... It's worth it.

#6: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2010-03-03 12:54:43) (reply to #3)
are you willing to (co-)maintain it?

#7: Jakub Rusinek (liviopl) (2010-03-03 13:54:08) (reply to #6)
What do you mean exactly? That I could be in charge of packaging it?
This is something I could do. Then it's easy to try using SUSE Studio
:) .

#8: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2010-03-03 14:05:44) (reply to #7)
I think Stephan points to

#9: Jakub Rusinek (liviopl) (2010-03-03 14:08:55) (reply to #8)
So I have to test on my LiveDVD and if I have time, I will.

#12: coly li (colyli) (2010-05-11 06:53:24) (reply to #6)
I'd like to maintain or comaintain this package. I mean packaging and
bug fixes, or new feature. In GSoC 2008, I have a little experience in
GRUB 0.97. For GRUBv2, it's new code, anyway I still can show my love
to her :-)

#10: Robert H. Williams (robhwill) (2010-04-24 08:12:58)
Hooray!!  grub 0.97.......bye-bye!!! I look forward to this; I'm
willing to type/format/post
all documentation for grub2 for openSuSE.  (Not a coder, but I'd like
to help!)
Take care.  Have A Healthy, Prosperous Day!  --- rob

#11: Bayard Coolidge (n1ho) (2010-05-08 02:05:04)
I would love to see it made available as long as it can boot existing
systems on other drives; I installed Ubuntu to a 1TB USB drive, and it
works fine under Ubuntu, but it won't boot Windows XP or openSUSE 11.2
that are already installed on the internal hard drives.

#13: hernan thiers (faco84) (2010-06-01 15:37:30)
I have seen a lot of people saying how difficult is to manage the boot
loader with grub2 with those scripts and config files. Some Ubuntu
10.04 guys are missing grub 0.97.
Anyway maybe it is still very new and people have to learn again this
new tool. If the new features worths.

#21: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2010-11-17 18:06:58) (reply to #13)
Grub2 syntax is pretty much the same as bind, I don't find it
difficult, in fact I find Grub2 far more flexible. But that's just me.
The only drawback that I see if most likely YaST integration, that
aside, there's no real reason for not using Grub2.

#14: Mario Guzman (mgbz) (2010-08-03 00:23:56)
GRUB2 FEATURES (beyond grub legacy). I don't bother with the /etc
baloney. I have grub2 in it's own partition and edit the grub.cfg file
and never have a problem.
I don't use grub at all, only grub2. Would love to see the ancient grub
replaced in OpenSuse.
Check the problems it has solved for me, and there is much more.
No need for separate /boot partition.
Allows /boot to be in "/"
Allows /boot to be in XFS or other non grub legacy filesystem
Allows /boot to be in LVM managed space
Partitioning is far simpler
If only using one /boot then no longer worry about filling up due to
larger kernels etc.
If using only one /boot then no longer an issue with multiple linuxes
using the same /boot and getting needed kernels deleted due to yast
maintenance of one partition.
No need for multiple /boot partitions when multiple linuxes of the same
version are on the machine. For instance a main and
emergency/maintenance partitiion both using the same kernel. If one is
updated the other stops working.
Each linux can have customized /boot without worry of affecting other
linux partitions.
LVM can be used for all partitions. This allows resizing of paritions
at any time. Far more flexibility
Makes backups simpler since "/" contains /boot.
Consider my scenario and see how GRUB2 saves the day-------:
Disk 1    /boot (for 1 linux in case needed during install)
LVM    Opensuse 11.2 primary
"    Opensuse 11.3 emergency/maintenance
"    Opensuse 11.3 for testing
"    common data
"    swap
DISK2    /grub2            In case of any disk1 partition failure I can
boot here. 
LVM    Opensuse 11.1 BU    I handle emergencies so the system must be
reliable (I do also have a BU machine)
"    Opensuse 11.2 BU
"    Testsys
"    swap

#15: Will Bickerstaff (wdbstaff) (2010-08-03 07:54:08)
Grub2 is not particularly difficult to config, sure its more involved
than 0.97, but then it is far more capable, if this is the only real
concern, why not re-package/implement something like startup manager
which handles the most common changes. Over at developerWorks theres a
great article on Grub2:

#16: a23 d56 (a23d56) (2010-08-31 17:35:05)
grub2 fails on my server config. don't force me to use grub2. let
users who want grub2, choose it during install.

#17: Markus K (kamikazow) (2010-10-28 02:38:44)
Is GRUBv2 out of beta, yet? If no: Keep the buggy bleeding edge stuff
to Fedora and Ubuntu

#19: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2010-11-17 18:04:46) (reply to #17)
There are tons of precedents (beta)? No? I can remember of nouveau for
And Fedora most times ships with stabilized versions, not exactly the
buggy the buggy stuff. Can't speak for Ubuntu.

#20: Nelson Marques (ketheriel) (2010-11-17 18:04:46) (reply to #17)
There are tons of precedents (beta)? No? I can remember of nouveau for
And Fedora most times ships with stabilized versions, not exactly the
buggy the buggy stuff. Can't speak for Ubuntu.

#18: Glenn Doig (doiggl) (2010-10-29 06:10:12)
grub2 is packaged at


#22: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2010-11-29 11:24:03)
We've added grub2 as an alternative, missing is integration into perl-
bootloader and yast.

#23: Martin Seidler (pistazienfresser) (2010-12-31 20:28:25) (reply to
So in what extend is this feature "Done"? 1) Is it also planned to choose
GRUB2 while installation (and maybe to drop LILO as an active
alternative there)? If I have not missed anything I was not able to do
this with 11.4 Milestone 4. I think it is inconvenient that you are
able to see and boot any Microsoft system after 11.3's installation but
not an other / most of the other usual Linux based systems if you
install openSUSE after them. See also for that: - Andrea Müller: * Die
Neuerungen von OpenSuse 11.3 (heise open, 2010/07/15)
(de) * What's new in openSUSE 11.3 (The H open, 2010/07/20)
(en) - Michael Kofler: Linux 2011 (Addison-Wesley) Page 1089 (de)
2) And to what extend is the integration of LVM and RAID supported
(including documented) if I use openSUSE 11.4? (compare Kofler, p. 52,
to the status on the end of 2010 with GRUB 0.97 versus GRUB 2 for this
, de)

+ #24: Markus K (kamikazow) (2011-01-02 03:59:35)
+ Grub 2.0 is still not even released.

openSUSE Feature:

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