Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-features (253 mails)

< Previous Next >
[openFATE 308357] Please, replacement for Sax2 in 11.3, and now for 11.4
  • From: fate_noreply@xxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 19:24:56 +0200 (CEST)
  • Message-id: <feature-308357-34@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Feature changed by: Jose Ramirez (1antares1)
Feature #308357, revision 34
Title: Please, replacement for Sax2 in 11.3, and now for 11.4

Hackweek V: Unconfirmed
Priority
Requester: Mandatory

openSUSE-11.3: Unconfirmed
Priority
Requester: Important

openSUSE-11.4: Unconfirmed
Priority
Requester: Mandatory

Requested by: Tara Ikeda (taraikeda)
Partner organization: openSUSE.org

Description:
We need a replacement for sax2 in 11.3, as a safety measure for when
auto configuration fails to detect certain monitors/keyboards/mice.
Relying on the Desktop Environment for this is not the best idea, as
some DE's or window managers dont provide config tools for what you
might need to work.
So I propose instead of relying on xrandr, Hal, devicekit or whatever
there should be a GUI to configure graphics cards, mice, and keyboards
without depending on the DE or a WM to provide a tool for the end user.
I mention this as I have had KDE 4 fail to detect my resolutions and
sometimes keyboard, luckily SAX2 is there to aid me but if its going
the way of the dodo then I propose a relacement tool so that the end
user wont have to make a xorg.conf and spend some time setting it up.
It takes skill to make edits to a xorg.conf file and one can easily
mess it up
So having a helpful GUI tool is needed sometimes.

Business case (Partner benefit):
openSUSE.org: Because of new users mainly, because we dont want them to
install openSUSE and have it fail to detect their proper monitor
resolution and default to a much smaller one. The goal here is ease of
use, but also to have a a safety net just in case. With openSUSE being
more geared toward KDE a tool like Sax2 becomes even more needed.
KDE4's monitor detection tool sucks, its always given me headaches in
Ubuntu, in Mandriva, in many other KDE4 distros. It has no feature to
remember monitor settings, nor does it do a good job with enabling my
resolution. But i am not doing this just for me, many others have
issues with KDE4's monitor tool

Discussion:
#1: Bernhard Wiedemann (bmwiedemann) (2009-12-03 17:23:48)
maybe XFdrake or drakx11 from mandrake would be an alternative.
Also a big reason for keeping SaX2 or a similar tool is that by default
no xorg.conf is generated, so that it is even harder to generate a
working one from scratch.

#2: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-12-05 13:41:04)
I doubt anything will be done - if tools like sax2 go, there is hardly
any room for another ('cause otherwise one could have kept sax2). You
can still download sax2 from its project page.

#3: Shekhar Neupane (wildnux) (2009-12-09 09:15:42)
users like me will be very happy if we don't have to search tools to
configure our keyboard, mouse or monitors. I am using dell inspiron
e1705 and wanted to configure my synaptics touchpad through kde4, but
it messed it up more. so i had to revert back to the default. I would
love to have sax or any tool do that in OS level rather than WM level.

#4: Chris Cox (cjcox) (2010-02-24 18:29:27)
xorg gets it WRONG a lot.  A whole LOT.  Autodetection simply cannot
detect everything and certainly doesn't allow the user the ability to
demand something on purpose.  I'd like to see sax2 continue... or at
least something similar.
It's impossible for xorg to scan the brain of the user IMHO to figure
out what is "right".
 

#5: Lee Matheson (oldcpu) (2010-06-11 15:16:37)
As an interim work around (to help openSUSE forum users) duing the the
transition from no sax2 to a better Xorg automatic configuration I
started a forum guide here: 
http://forums.opensuse.org/information-new-users/advanced-how-faq-read-only/438705-opensuse-graphic-card-practical-theory-guide-users.html

(http://forums.opensuse.org/information-new-users/advanced-how-faq-read-only/438705-opensuse-graphic-card-practical-theory-guide-users.html)
 .
But its inadequate, and a "wiki" is needed, and NOT a forum guide.  I
also raised a bug report here (suggesting a wiki as a work around
solution) and I was assigned the action of doing so here:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=608237
(https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=608237)  .  ...
The idea of mine is NOT to replace any openFATE idea, but at least provide
an interim solution for users until the way forward becomes more
clear.  Things are advancing very fast in the Graphical area for Linux
and its hard to stay up to date.

#7: Martin Seidler (pistazienfresser) (2010-06-22 22:18:34) (reply to
#5)
I propose to take a look at oldcpu's so called " draft - Configure
Graphics - openSUSE
(http://wiki.opensuse.org/User:Oldcpu/Configure_Graphics) " wiki
article (and maybe also at
http://forums.opensuse.org/community/opensuse-wiki-discussions/440807-proposed-new-graphic-card-wiki-close-action.html,

http://forums.opensuse.org/get-help-here/pre-release-beta/440079-we-using-xorg-configure-now.html
and search for graphic card or sax2 in the forums)
- especially to estimate how much an easy graphical solution for
problem with graphic cards and their drivers may be needed.

#8: Martin Seidler (pistazienfresser) (2010-06-23 08:58:28) (reply to
#7)
The great and enormos wiki work of L. M. is now at:

http://wiki.opensuse.org/SDB:Configuring_graphics_cards
(http://wiki.opensuse.org/SDB:Configuring_graphics_cards)
as "SDB:Configuring
graphics cards".


#6: nick skeen (ns89) (2010-06-15 22:38:39)
As bad as Sax2 was, when it did work it seemed to work well, especially
when using it to configure the Nvidia proprietary drivers. I would
really like to see it either come back, or be replaced by a tool of
similar functionality.

#9: Alexandros Sikamiotis (aleksandros) (2010-07-17 17:48:47)
Unfortunately quality of SUSE has dropped enormously due to the loss of
Sax2. Without hacking the console it's "you either get what I want
(xorg detection), or nothing at all".
We need a new GUI tool ASAP. I have 2 PCs and xorg autoconfiguration
was a nightmare in both, while in all SUSE releases from 9.3 till 11.1
everything was perfect.

#10: Joe D'Angelo (wolfspider2) (2010-07-18 03:40:44)
I plan on looking into the writing of either a shell script or a Perl
app that will write a good generic xorg.conf file. I will keep you all
posted as things progress. If anyone else has some code to share I
would encourage you to do it soon. We all see the need for a text level
utility to do something rather than just see your x server fail.
 
 

#11: Genix Info (genixinfo) (2010-07-19 09:17:24)
I support the return or replacement of Sax2 (on openSUSE Linux 11.4),
since many users are not able to configure the resolution of your video
easily and fast, my video hardware is Intel and works fine (as far as
possible: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623239
(https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623239) ), but many users
with video hardware SIS (among others.), are being affected by not
having more Sax2.

#12: H. Hansen (cyberbeat) (2010-07-23 20:56:50)
an alternative (in kde case) would be to help fixing krandr to make it
work properly. I also had to write bash scripts and modify config files
in /etc/X11 in opensuse-11.3 to make my laptop screen setup work.

#13: Genix Info (genixinfo) (2010-07-24 06:23:21)
I see that there is a strategic discussion of openSUSE
(http://news.opensuse.org/2010/07/21/timeline-for-opensuses-strategy-discussion/),
I'll be very happy if they (or you, or even the community, because it
will start talks between developers and community) in this discussion,
decide that openSUSE, now has more autonomy from Novell, and to take
major decision as the creation of the Foundation openSUSE
(http://www.osnews.com/story/23474/openSUSE_Linux_Seeks_More_Autonomy_From_Novell),
and that the foundation now has more autonomy from Novell, and decides
to return or replace the SaX2 (https://features.opensuse.org/308357)
because the removal of SaX2 (http://en.opensuse.org/Archive:SaX2) of
openSUSE, was a decision made by Novell, who preferred not to invest in
the development of SaX2, for business issues
(http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-12/msg00017.html), for
this and other reasons, I am in favor of creation, of Foundation
openSUSE, and also decide that the openSUSE, switching to versions LTS
(Long Term Support), and that support will last for more of three
years, among other points that must be discussed. I just want a better
openSUSE.

#14: Genix Info (genixinfo) (2010-07-24 06:41:41)
See these links:
 

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/surveys-polls/440730-opensuse-strategy-home-developers-6.html#post2195124

(http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/surveys-polls/440730-opensuse-strategy-home-developers-6.html#post2195124)
 

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/surveys-polls/440491-opensuse-strategy-community-statement-6.html#post2195125

(http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/surveys-polls/440491-opensuse-strategy-community-statement-6.html#post2195125)


#15: Genix Info (genixinfo) (2010-07-24 06:41:41)
See these links:
 

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/surveys-polls/440730-opensuse-strategy-home-developers-6.html#post2195124

(http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/surveys-polls/440730-opensuse-strategy-home-developers-6.html#post2195124)
 

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/surveys-polls/440491-opensuse-strategy-community-statement-6.html#post2195125

(http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/surveys-polls/440491-opensuse-strategy-community-statement-6.html#post2195125)


#16: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2010-08-19 20:11:51) (reply to #15)
You have a strange tendency to double post everything. Literally
everything.

#17: Nicolas Boucher (linuxbidouille) (2010-08-22 08:53:06)
I come from Mandriva world, where I can see that Yast and MCC are more
or less equal.
BUT Mandriva has a great plus in the MCC : all the SAX2 part is
available in MCC.
I find that this feature is a MUST if you want to spread Linux over the
world.

#18: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2010-08-22 12:21:09)
It is probably hardware that I use, but SaX2 was completely useless for
me for a long time.
I had better success using:
X -configure
to create xorg.conf, copy it in /etc/X11/xorg.conf and then use card
vendor (Nvidia, ATI) tools to configure the rest, or manually enter my
monitor and graphic card data directly in xorg.conf. This tells that
problem is communication between graphic driver and Xorg (SaX2, or any
other tool), otherwise even vendor specific tools will not work. 
The only benefit from SaX2 would be to allow manual monitor setup,
which means that SaX2 has to be stripped down from automatic part, but
then good article that will explain how to edit xorg.conf safely will
be faster way to fix the problem, even with initial need to read such
article. 

+ #19: Jose Ramirez (1antares1) (2010-09-24 19:07:40)
+ By God!! I come from Ubuntu because there working manually configuring
+ the Xorg and headache, seeing that there was tedious to configure all
+ the hardware on hand and now come to remove the Sax2 when I was happy
+ to try the version 11.3: S "With this they gets to the end user's mind?
+ It was a great disappointment to the few users who use openSUSE and now
+ they come and make life more difficult, the community they have earned.
+ Mandriva has its own Sax2 integrated into the MCC, and they still
+ passing through a dark past And us? By returning to the past? The more
+ attractive are the desktop, but behind all the settings that were made
+ with clicks. Do not believe reaching the minds of programmers and a
+ mouthful of words saying that "Xorg-configure" is much more stable and
+ better. Tell that to your grandmother and see that they will say he is
+ right, who prefers to enter console and create a "Xorg-configure" then
+ copy it to /etc/X11/xorg.conf and manually edit the modules that they
+ recognize the 1440x900 resolution. ...........! :$



--
openSUSE Feature:
https://features.opensuse.org/308357

< Previous Next >
This Thread
  • No further messages