Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-features (201 mails)

< Previous Next >
[openFATE 305888] Disable PulseAudio by default
  • From: fate_noreply@xxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:09:53 +0200 (CEST)
  • Message-id: <feature-305888-22@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Feature changed by: Juergen Weigert (jnweiger)
Feature #305888, revision 22
Title: Disable PulseAudio by default

openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed
Priority
Requester: Mandatory

Requested by: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop)

Description:
PulseAudio has been one of the major sources of complaints and of
problems for both the 11.0 and 11.1 release, with significant
annoyances for openSUSE users, as reported on IRC and on local forums.
As a consequence it is worth to consider the possibility to disable it
by default on freshly installed systems for openSUSE 11.2.
This enhancement request aims to collect the votes of those who agree
with this. According to a discussion in IRC with coolo, if there are
enough requests, this might be done. So, please, if you want to see PA
disabled by default, in favour of a working audio system out of the box
for many more users, just comment here.

Relations:
- Disable PulseAudio by default (novell/bugzilla/id: 478511)
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=478511

Discussion:
#1: Criss Peress (pieris) (2009-02-22 12:52:19)
+1

#2: Jakub Rusinek (liviopl) (2009-02-22 13:31:25)
You should have a look at what Lennart says on pulseaudio-discuss list
[1], 'cause this might be important for openSUSE.
1|
https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2009-February/003150.html

#3: Luigi Bettin (gigi888) (2009-02-22 13:55:58)
+1

#4: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) (2009-02-22 14:23:28)
On comment #2: that has nothing to do with this discussion. Please keep
it on topic! Fedora, cited in the link as the distribution doing
something in the suggested direction, has similar complaints to those
we had for openSUSE 11.0 and 11.1.
Bye, A.

#5: andrea florio (anubisg1) (2009-02-22 16:57:39)
+1 for me

#6: andrea martin (il_cjargnel) (2009-02-22 23:54:03)
+1 for me (no pulse audio of default in 11.2)

#7: Takashi Iwai (tiwai) (2009-02-23 01:07:08)
Guys, the bugzilla is no place for voting or discussions, and it's no
user forum. It's the place to report a bug and fix the bug.
Please vote/discuss on ML at first. Then report back the result to
bugzilla as the consensus of the whole community.
Thanks.

#8: Sven Burmeister (rabauke) (2009-02-23 04:28:01)
I do not see any discussion here. Enabling pa by default can be
regarded as a bug and not doing so as an enhancement people vote on.
Bugzilla is about bugs/enhancements (not features) and voting.

#9: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) (2009-02-23 07:22:54)
In answer to comment #7: This is an enhancement request, and bugzilla
is exactly the place where this kind of discussion, to collect votes
for it. Further discussion happened in the IRC anyway, and this bug
report was opened as a consequence of it to collect user's feedback in
a clean and organized manner, so that the decisionmaker can decide
without reading an endless discussion in a mailing-list.
As a consequence I reopen it.
Regards, A.

#10: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) (2009-02-23 07:26:33)
@Takashi Iwai: You might want to take part to the IRC life of openSUSE
and discuss with us. Any suggestion/help is welcome! :-)

#11: Takashi Iwai (tiwai) (2009-02-23 07:43:54)
Could you give the exact voting result here? (And, no I'm not going to
join IRC just for this purpose.)
The vote must be done in an open way, and needs to take from a wide
range of voters (users) without bias. Voting in bugzilla doesn't make
sense for this kind of issue because the bugzilla (a specific bug
entry) isn't the place where every user takes a look. It's the place
where the people with the same problems take a look. Thus, of course,
it will result in votes just by haters.
Also, the endless discussion in ML is the result you have to respect.
If there is no clear sign in the discussions in ML, it means there is
no clear way to go, too. The rest is the political decision, and not
about technical ones (remember KDE vs GNOME).
So, please give more concrete technical issues rather than emotional
+1/-1 votes.

#12: Michael Skiba (mirrakor) (2009-02-23 10:03:31)
> So, please give more concrete technical issues rather than emotional
+1/-1 votes. There's nothing emotional about it.
> It's the place where the people with the same problems take a look.
Thus, of course, it will result in votes just by haters. Which is
exactly the point - this isn't an open "opinion poll" it's about
messuring how big the disturbances/problems (->bug) with PA really is,
and if it affects enough people it's worth thinking about disabling it
by default.

#13: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) (2009-02-23 10:07:28)
Hi Takashi,
the result of the voting, done with the usual procedure to vote bugs
and requests, can be read at the top of the page. Currently this
request has 27 votes. Each user can give a maximum of five votes.
I probably wasn't clear in the initial post. We discussed to disable PA
on IRC, and coolo suggested that is can be done if there is a
sufficient number of requests. I don't know what "sufficient" means,
but I thought it would have been easier to collect the votes in a
quantitative manner here, using bugzilla features.
I think it is important to notice that I'm not asking to remove
PulseAudio, but to simply disable it by default, so that users don't
meet the problems it is causing to them. PulseAudio can be already be
disabled with one click in YaST, and the same can done to enable it
again. My idea is that we should not activate it by default, because
for 11.0 and 11.1 releases we had quite a lot of complaints due to it.
Users who want it will be able to enable it with a simple click, but
the new unexperienced user won't have to fight to make it work to
listen to his music, which will result in a better image of the
distribution that "works out of the box" and at the same time provides
"the latest stack" for those who want/need it.
The concrete technical issues are the following (I sum up what
reported):
- PA audio glitches often. - It gives troubles with Flash and other
players, which capture the server, making other applications unable to
work correctly. - It crashes, leaving you without controls on the audio
system (Connection refused). - It doesn't work properly with some
player and sound tool (someone reported issues with audacity, skype (I
know it's skype problem but people wants to use it) gives problems
too).
Anyway, if you prefer, we can post the link on the ML to make it
available to a wider public. I simply fear it will become noisy. I
already spread it on IRC when I opened the request.
P.S. My invitation on IRC was friendly. If you don't like it, there is
no problem. But I'm serious when I say that suggestions are welcome.
After all we are here to improve things, and not to fight between us :-
)
Regards, Alberto

#14: Daniele Tombolini (kailed) (2009-02-23 11:47:18)
+1 at least, under kde is unuseful.

#15: Takashi Iwai (tiwai) (2009-02-23 12:11:37)
OK, then I reassign this bug to coolo. Please reassign back after the
decision is made.
My position is neutral about this. I myself don't use PA, and I won't.
But I do understand that some (other) people want PA as default, too.

#16: alberto rossi (al9000) (2009-02-23 12:13:09)
no to pulseaudio by default in opensuse 11.2

#17: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2009-02-23 13:17:47)
This is discussion about this enhancement request:
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-02/msg00208.html

#18: Alberto Passalacqua (albertop) (2009-02-23 13:21:34)
FYI, opened a discussion here so the interested people can say their
opinion and we can collect more feedback:
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-02/msg00208.html
A.

#19: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2009-02-23 14:47:36)
Stupid question, if people think that the votes on this bug can be
taken into account for the decision: how can people vote to keep
pulseaudio?
IMHO, bugzilla is not the right place for this -- this is not an
enhancement request, this is a technical decision. Starting a thread on
opensuse-factory was a good thing, though :-)

#20: Andras Barna (sartek) (2009-02-23 19:59:13)
for me alsa worked perfectly, so why change it..
so +1

#21: Jigish Gohil (cyberorg) (2009-02-23 22:45:22)
Can we get kernel people look into the points raised in link posted on
comment #2?

https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2009-February/003150.html
Quoting relevant parts from that post for everyone's benefit here.
"Apparently OpenSUSE ships a kernel (2.6.27.7-9-pae) that causes
scheduling latencies of > 210ms. That is a lot. That is really really
really a lot."
"Fedora-kernels that easily give latencies of 5ms or so."
"1) For fucks sakes: get your bloody kernels fixed. Enable preempt, set
HZ to 1000. Get rid of low-quality drivers that block the CPU.
Latencies of 210ms is *REALLY NOT NECESSARY*.
2) If you want to stick with your crap kernel, then either disable g-f
entirely or adjust the #defines at the top of src/modules/alsa-sink.c
and src/modules/alsa-source.c."
So why do our kernel suck so bad?

#22: Antonio Cervone (capitalaslash) (2009-02-24 11:05:26)
+1

#23: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) (2009-02-27 16:40:50)
Takashi,
If you were in the #suse irc room you would see that pulse causes all
kinds of headaches and is probably one of the most requested issue to
get help with. Right after "How do I install video drivers?", "Help, I
get no sound / I have hiccups / I have huge audio lags / etc" which
most of the time is cured with the answer "uninstall pulseaudio".

#24: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-01 16:31:24)
+1, for very large values of 1 ;-)

#25: William Simon Lewis (williamsimonlewis) (2009-03-04 21:40:48)
I think it is great that openSUSE now have a realtime kernel in the
standard repos. I have been using the trace kernel supplied with
openSUSE 11.1 x85-64 / KDE 4.1.3 on a HP550 notebook (single core 2GHz
celeron) and work with 5ms latency for long periods without x-runs. I
needed to remove pulseaudio first - this was interrupting or cutting
off the sound output and throwing out konflict messages.
So please, please, please do not install pulseaudio as standard.

#26: Marcus Grenängen (snews) (2009-03-04 22:45:43)
+1 here to.

#27: Michal Smrž (ilfirin) (2009-03-07 21:53:52)
Not a default removal, but have a choice in installation Pulse Audio
Yes or No would be wonderful. This would very grow up OpenSUSE
reputation.

#28: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2009-03-12 18:46:44) (reply to #27)
Problem is how do I know what to answer. If there would be clear mark
"EXPERIMENTAL" like in kernel configuration, I would not touch it for
stable installation, and I will include it in test one, but there is no
sign that feature (audio server) has a problem, as indicated in
https://tango.0pointer.de/pipermail/pulseaudio-discuss/2009-February/003150.html


#29: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2009-03-12 19:10:10)
If Lennart is right then openSUSE kernel configuration is not
compatible with PulseAudio: grep HZ /boot/config-2.6.27.19-3.2-pae
CONFIG_NO_HZ=y
# CONFIG_HZ_100 is not set
CONFIG_HZ_250=y
# CONFIG_HZ_300 is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_1000 is not set
CONFIG_HZ=250 <<<<< It is asked for 1000

#30: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-03-16 18:01:15) (reply to #29)
Well you need to use -rt, tho.

#31: Rajko Matovic (rajko_m) (2009-03-30 20:46:54) (reply to #30)
I agree, but then we leave out all that have no idea how to replace
kernel.
I know it is simple install -rt, but it is so, if one knows:
1) what is kernel
2) that there is -rt kernel
3) that it is simple procedure: visit to YaST Software Management |
search |install


+ #32: Juergen Weigert (jnweiger) (2009-04-24 13:08:43)
+ If pulesaudio is incompatible with current kernel settings, it should
+ disable itself and say so prominently.
+ Just sitting there and doing nothing punishes the wrong party.
+ The fact that alsa just works raises some doubt wrt comment#21



--
openSUSE Feature:
https://features.opensuse.org/305888

< Previous Next >
This Thread
  • No further messages