Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-features (19 mails)

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[Fate 302957] Combined "where am I" page
  • From: fate_noreply@xxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:37:46 +0100 (CET)
  • Message-id: <15233807.1201077466025.JavaMail.tomcat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Feature changed by: jsuchome
Feature #302957, revision 24
Title: Combined "where am I" page

openSUSE-11.0: Candidate
Requester: Mandatory
Projectmanager: Important

SLED-11: New
Requester: Mandatory

SLES-11: New
Requester: Mandatory

Requested by: coolo@xxxxxxxxxx
Partner organization:

Our (openSUSE) statistics show that most of our users are not native
english speakers. So I'm blindly assuming they do not have a english
keyboard either and do not live in an english speaking timezone.
So I want the first page to be not just the language in a blue box, but
to have _one_ installation page with language, timezone and keyboard
These selections should depend on each other, so depending on where I
click first the others change.
To have a good looking addon, I picture the timezone selection as
picture and not as fullscreen list boxes.

#1: coolo@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-09 11:48:30)
An additional note, feature #302955 is related (split translations out
of installation system).

#2: jsrain@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-09 13:27:05)
Isn't it easier for users who do not speak English to have the first
dialog really as simple as possible (since they cannot read it)? Having
just one selection box leads them straight where they need to get; I
guess that most of them use mouse for installation, so keyboard is not
an issue either...
Also, we already have a support in isolinux to select language; then
the first dialog is skipped.

#3: coolo@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-09 14:13:14)
If isolinux provides a language, then the page is not worse than the
timezone page is now. Just that it also allows to change the language
after the fact.
If users do not grasp english _at all_, they will have a hard time
booting the installation off the CD. So I would blindly assume that
users have no problem with selecting Deutsch, русский or čeština when
presented with a list even if they do not understand the exact context.
And when next to that list is even a graphical presentation of the
world, most will be able to select the part of the world they live in.

#4: evamaria.fuchs@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-09 16:00:35)
I think for the secondary target market of opensuse (first time user,
home user)an installer wizard that consists of a series of screens
would be convenient.
Basically it's preferable that language-, time-zone- and keyboard-
selection depend on each other so that modifying one will effect the
others. But - as I prefer a picture (e.g. a rotating globe) for time-
zone selection - sticking them together in one screen would clutter the
whole thing up.

#5: coolo@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-15 13:01:50)
after some discussions with Eva, I want to reexpress my request:
I want the language selection to be on one page together with license
and a welcome text and the timezone dialog to be graphical and a
proposed keyboard layout associated to the language from the first
The license text doesn't have to be visible in full beauty. I talked
with the lawyer and what I got was: it's ok if the license can be read,
it doesn't have to optimized for scrolling.
I'll work on a mockup. The challenge is that we might need a slightly
different work flow for ncurses, but I think popups are ok for it. So
you can write UI code, that either fills a special widget or opens a

#6: coolo@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-18 13:53:57) (reply to #5)
Danger Mouse! I'm very far from a capable mockup designer.
But here is my show:

#7: coolo@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-18 13:54:45) (reply to #6)
Ciaran, just to verify: is this way to present the license ok?

#9: cfarrell@xxxxxxx (2007-11-19 08:51:13) (reply to #7)
Provided that we maintain the status quo with regard to not proceeding
with the installation until the user actually accepts the license.

#8: coolo@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-18 14:39:45) (reply to #6)
mocking up the timezone page, I leave to the interested reader.
For reference: this is how unbuntu's installer looks like:
I would make the map a little smaller and do not show a region and not
the name of the timezone again, but rather have the value of the
combobox fill in what we have now as Europe/Berlin.
Because I want a "Keyboard: English" with a little test field in there.
But that is to be discussed. The main goal is to have a graphical
selection instead of these fullscreen list boxes.

#10: michl@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-19 13:28:22)
Mockup looks good. And the whole thing should simplify and shorten the
installation process.

#11: jsrain@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-19 16:57:23)
The timezone dialog looks good to me, however, we should not present
the other one in the current form. Even if we have a different dialog
for NCurses, we still must take care of Qt with the resolution of
With the current font size, the text itself will not fit into the
screen if it is 800x600. Also consider the license - if one wants to
read it, he wants to read a reasonable part of the license without
scrolling - and not to scroll every 3rd line.
IMO this suggestion puts the usability a huge step back

#12: coolo@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-19 18:23:04) (reply to #11)
damn, fate crashed on my comment ;(
Again: I'm not a good designer
But as a matter of fact: we do not design the default screen estate for
reading the license, but of course a better design can add a popup to
read the full text in full screen.

#14: locilka@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-11-29 13:10:32)
Additional step to help user understand where he is and what he can do
there is to remove a [Show Release Notes] button and place that button
to a Welcome Dialog only. The button doesn't need to occupy
installation wizard screen all the time, it often rather confuses
Frankly, this wasn't my idea but I found it useful :) ;)

#15: jsuchome@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-12-20 16:19:25)
Proposal of timezone dialog with a map:
BTW, it may not have a sense to offer keyboard configuration together with
timezone. Keyboard layout is currently decided according to selected
language, so it may better fit together with language. But the language
dialog could get eventually too crowded.

#16: coolo@xxxxxxxxxx (2007-12-22 14:05:24)
new screenshot for the first page (I tried ycp):
Some icons and some more text would help the design I'd think.

#17: coolo@xxxxxxxxxx (2008-01-08 12:40:13) is Martin's counter proposal.
This one needs icons to differ the combo boxes though, but I believe a
keyboard and an UN flag should make this obvious enough.

#18: locilka@xxxxxxxxxx (2008-01-10 15:24:31) (reply to #17)
BTW: This complex dialog will not be part of yast2-country (or similar)
but directly yast2-installation because it contains more than just
defining the language and keyboard settings. License handling needs to
be reworked.

+ #19: jsuchome@xxxxxxxxxx (2008-01-23 09:37:39) (reply to #18)
+ Well, OK than. I expect you will ask for creating some API of Language
+ (and maybe Keyboard) module, because current one probably is not
+ sufficient. The API should be used instead writing whole stuff again
+ separately, so we don't have the language handling on more places.

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