Re: [opensuse-factory] I'm getting fed up with this silly thread (was: why is tumbleweed still using cron?)

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 00:59:26 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 03/03/17 12:34 AM, Kyek, Andreas, Vodafone DE (External) wrote:

...

but please don't forget the "linux way" of having small simple specialist

I 100% agree with Keyk. I started with System3, worked with VME, Solaris, AIX (version 2 .. 5), HP-UX (version 7.0 .. 11.31), OSF/1, and most of the Linux flavors.

Oh, you mean like the very, very small original small and fast Bourne shell of the V7 era (about 24k binary on a PDP-11 IIR) .... which we abandoned in favour of the bloated, complex Korn shell and in due course the Born Again Shell, BASH, which is even more bloated, has more built in commands and plug-in structure that lets you add even more (isn't that a security violation?).

No, not at all. sh/bash is a bad counter-example. It's main purpose did NOT change at all, it just got more features. When I started, we just had sh and csh. As a scripting tool, sh was the only portable tool available, but as UI/shell, csh was way more user-friendly than sh. Then indeed came ksh. But then also came tcsh. Users had a choice again, as both shells were functional enough to do ones daily work. Then came bash and zsh and probably a few more: portability became an issue. I still write my shell scripts in the original bourne-shell syntax not using any features of modern shells. For portability. But for user interaction, my daily shell is tcsh.

Your point being?

Emacs would have been a better counter-example. ed, ex and vi were standard, and they just had one single function: edit a file. (g)vim, elvis and all other vi clones do not change that: they are just editors. emacs however adds a complete infrastructure to integrate various other activities into editing. Just like netbeans, idea, and eclipse. That is why I try to stay away from these as long as possible. I see cron as ed. I see systemd as emacs. They both have their target audience, and if you look at how enthusiastic their users are, on both camps, and how many flame-wars have been started over the years on this, I think it warrants the existence of both. Users and system administrators are humans: they all have their preferences. I like all my windows as separate windows and have on average about 20 windows open at the same time. My co-worker might have three windows open, of which one is always maximized hiding the info of all the others. I could not work like he does and he could not work like I do.

You admit ignorance of systemd and rely on the word of others who don't get it for your arguments, ones that are easily disproven and have been. But you pass over those articles.

Irrelevant. Really

On Tuesday, nicholas wrote a rather good parody of these kinds of denunciations of 'new technology; on the main forum. Message-ID: <1689789.g315aOOmSE@asus> https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2017-02/msg00946.html That sums up this thread well.

-- H.Merijn Brand http://tux.nl Perl Monger http://amsterdam.pm.org/ using perl5.00307 .. 5.25 porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/ http://www.test-smoke.org/ http://qa.perl.org http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/