Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (807 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] opensuse factory (2017.02.24) want to remove not installed packages.....
On Sat, 2017-02-25 at 03:26 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
André Verwijs composed on 2017-02-25 09:00 (UTC+0100):

with TW i always get this...
The following 4 applications are going to be REMOVED:
  Cuttlefish Desktop "Grouping Plasmoid" "System Tray"
but packages are not installed...

Right, they're not. Applications and packages are not the same thing.
Only YaST 
knows what applications are. Zypper only guesses what to do, and
actually do anything except confuse users with useless messages

So, from now on we will have to call you zypper - because what you say
is wrong and is confusing our users.

Half-jokes aside, I already created different mails with probably about
the same content as to what is to come next: the FACTs to this topic,
no half truth, no speculation.

The message as seen by Andre can have basically two reasons - both of
them being bugs - in different systsms:

* The user has additional repositories enabled bysided openSUSE
Tumbleweed and said repository does not provide complete/valid
AppStream metadata. This is currently the case for pretty much all the
OBS repos - as the process to extract this information out of packages
into the repomd metastructure is more than fragile and is very
unreloable. If anybody wants to work on this, claim

If the user has NO 3rd party repos enabled and sees the messages on a
pure Tumbleweed system, then the user is caught by a packaging bug.

* Whenever a Tumbleweed snapshot is processed, a new set of AppStream
metadata is being produced using AppStream Builder. This tool parses
all the RPMs and extracts the requires information. For this, it looks
for .appdata.xml and .metainfo.xml files inside /usr/share/appdata and
/usr/share/metainfo (the two directories are equally treated,
.appdata.xml and .metainfo.xml are allowed in BOTH locations. The
latter is slowly superseding the first, as the name is more suitable
for the long tirm goal of AppStream) For the 'System Tray' one
mentioned by Andree for example there is already a bug files in
bugzill, see

Most common issues for such bugs I noted down in a blob post a while

Now, to get back to zypper, eh, Felix' statements: the component in the
software stack that knows about this is libzypp - used by zypper and
yast equally. zypper (not Felix, the real zypper) is the one that
understands this and informs the user about it; you can even query and
install 'applications' (which is not the same as packages - often the
names match though) using zypper.

A list of all applications known:
zypper se -t application

Yast, so far, does not have any representation of the concept of
'Applications' - it only treats 'Packages'

There are other tools, so called 'Software Centers' that focus solely
on Applications and remove the concept of packages from the visible
pool for the user: a 'User' generally should care for 'WHat do I want
to do' and not 'how the heck did the packager call this and that'; and
he needs visual appealing representation. We currently have these
Software Centers in openSUSE Tumbleweed:
* GNOME Software
* KDE Discover

I'm sure others will follow suite (I thought I had seen a 3rd one
already pass by)

In the hopes that we will now STOP spreading false claims on this
topic: remember this mail, feel free to reference it whenever a similar
question comes up. And if you see such things and can confirm it is NOT
3rd parties interfering here: file bugs and have this fixed!

And as Stats are nice: shows a trend graph
over how many 'applications' are known inside openSUSE Tumbleweed

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