Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (498 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] How Leap and SLE's timetable overlap
  • From: Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 02:08:59 +0200
  • Message-id: <>
On 25 May 2016, at 01:24, Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Nov 2016 - Release Leap 42.2 with 4.4 kernel

Spring 2017 - Release the Leap 42.2 "advanced kernel" (ie. the 2017
LTS kernel).

Fall 2017 - Release Leap 42.3 with the 2017 LTS kernel (no longer
designated advanced).

Fall 2017 - Drop all support for the 4.4 kernel when Leap 42.3 is released

Spring 2018 - Release the 42.3 "advanced kernel" (ie. the 2018 LTS kernel)

Spring 2018 - Drop 2017 LTS kernel support (when Leap 42.2 support is

The end result is that over the summer 2 kernels are supported: the
current LTS kernel and the previous year's LTS kernel.

But during the winter only one kernel is supported.

From the kernel team's perspective they may even be able to leverage
SLE kernel support at all times because they will have to support SLE
kernels longer than the 12 months I'm proposing. That assumes the SLE
will be supporting each of the annual LTS kernels.

Greg, please consider the user impact of what you are proposing.

Two kernels in the same distro?
Users having to switch to one during the lifecycle of the distro?
That complexity and that forced changing brings with it risk - new
kernels break things for some people. Some people don't want to take
those risks. Those are the people we make Leap for.

Leap is never going to support the latest and greatest hardware. It's
not meant to. It's meant to be a reliable, dependable, workhorse of a
distribution that people can put their faith into.

A more moderate pace of change,like the one we currently have, is the
best way to accomplish that.

For people like you who buy USB 3.1 Gen 2 Ludicrous speed cards so
early in the protocols existence the Kernel doesn't support it yet, we
have Tumbleweed.

You cannot have it both ways. If you want to leave life on the edge,
and your hardware purchases suggest you do, then Tumbleweed is the
best platform for you.
You cannot crave stability - you're buying hardware so new that no
software support is available. 4.6 is just the first version to add
support for USB 3.1 Gen 2. There will be bugs. Things will not be
stable for USB 3.1 Gen 2 for some kernel versions yet.

And before you argue '3.1 Gen 2 is going to take over the world in 12
months, I'd like to point out that USB 3 came out in 2008 and took
years before becoming ubiquitous.
3.1 is only just now appearing on new mainstream machines and even
then that is Gen 1, fully supported stuff
I can find ONE motherboard, a high end MSI gaming board with a Gen 2 card in it

So even if they get it right first time and Kernel 4.6 has no USB 3.1
Gen 2 bugs, it's still a whole bunch of change for a very narrow

We're not building Leap to cover every edge case. USB 3.1 Gen 2 is an
edge case now, it will be in November, and I do not feel it's support
is a compelling argument for playing loose and risk with the entire
concept and purpose of what we're doing with Leap.

Now, I am not saying that the SLE kernel will make sense for Leap
42.3. Just like we did for 42.1, we are in the position to make the
right choice for us.
We can talk about that next year, after 42.2's release, when we have
very real facts to base our discussions on, such as the state of the
upstream kernels at the time and our experience of them within
But I am certain that choosing 4.4 sets us in a very good foundation
for the future. Being an LTS kernel means we can be certain it will be
well supported for the full lifespan of 42.2 and, if we choose to not
do a kernel upgrade in 42.3, then we know that we still be on a very
well supported, stable, LTS kernel.

And I guess that's my point, right now, based on the information we
have and the points raised to date, I am utterly convinced that the
SLE 12 SP2 Kernel (4.4 with whatever backports are already there) is
the correct choice for Leap 42.2

I'm open to debate on that point but I feel the arguments need to be
stronger than the USB 3.1 Gen 2 case.

I'm don't think it's too productive to worry too far into the future
such as Leap 42.3 and beyond - that requires speculation or crystal
balls, which aren't very useful, or time machines, which we don't even
have support for in Tumbleweed yet ;)

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