Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (498 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: openSUSE Leap 42.2 Alpha1 released

On 05/24/2016 06:20 PM, Yamaban wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2016 23:10, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Richard Brown wrote:
On 24 May 2016 at 21:02, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
There are two exceptions though. The SLE12SP2 Beta1 sources landed
in OBS and we got Qt 5.6 and kernel 4.4 from there already.

Is there any chance that 42.2 will get a 4.6 or newer kernel?

The key feature for me is much better USB 3.1 support. USB 3.1 has
been around for a while now, so it seems like something that should be
better supported in Leap 42.2.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=USB3.1-More-For-Linux-4.6


ps: I know 4.4 is a LTS kernel, I just don't when the next LTS kernel
may come along. Sometime this summer would not be a surprise:

https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

Thanks
Greg

Greg, please, no

I can live with a 4.4 kernel, but I do think USB 3.1 Gen 2 support is
very appropriate for Leap 42.2 which will be the main Leap distro for
most of 2017.

For starters, Kernel 4.4 has sufficient USB 3.1 support
Kernel 4.6 is adding USB 3.1 Gen 2 devices (aka SuperSpeedPlus)
USB 3.1 devices is not the same as Type-C or power delivery, both of
which are supported in Kernel 4.4

Agreed

I have not yet seen any hardware that requires USB 3.1 Gen 2 support

"requires" I don't know about. But I bought my first USB 3.1 Gen 2
PCI card in Oct 2015.

I now have 4 of them. In my testing I am seeing greater than 500
MB/sec speeds with:

- Tumbleweed as of a month or so ago (kernel 4.5)
- a Type-C connection to a USB 3.1 Gen 2 sata docking station
- a highspeed Samsung SSD (over 560 MByte / sec spec)

With that combo I got 580 MB/sec speeds.

Would I get the performance increase with a 4.4 kernel? (I have no
idea as I haven't tested that).

Even with a 4.5 kernel my late April Tumbleweed testing did NOT show
proper reporting of the speed.

I looked in both dmesg and "lsusb -t"

I tested 2 different brands of USB 3.1 Gen 2 PCIexpress cards. My
assumption is that even with a 4.5 kernel, the drivers haven't yet
fully implemented SuperSpeedPlus reporting.

If anyone out there has it, then I consider them likely to be the kind
of cutting edge, technological enthusiast who would be better served
by Tumbleweed.

I am running a modern computer yes, but not because I want to
experiment. Stability and performance are both very important to me.
Especially USB performance. I routinely transfer 100s of GBs (or low
numbers of TBs) of data between USB devices.

As Yamaban has already said, Kernel 4.4 is the LTS release for 2016

We are releasing Leap 42.2 in 2016

Unfortunately for me that is a strong argument.

Furthermore, it's the Kernel which is going to be in SLE 12 SP2,
meaning we get SLE patches, which is a good thing

If you want a different kernel version, please realise that the Leap
release model (which means 42.1 will be supported for 6 months after
Leap 42.2's release, not 2 months like the old openSUSE model).

Well, the old model had 2 months where 3 kernels were supported. ie.
The kernels for 13.0, 13.1, and 13.2 were all supported for 2 months
immediately following 13.2's release.

I assume that for the 2 months immediately following 42.2's release
there will be 3 kernels supported as well: kernels for 13.2, 42.1,
and 42.2

Thus the situation for those 2 months is exactly the same as it has
been for many years.

The real change is 6 months after 42.2 is released. By that point
both 13.2 and 42.1 will be out of support, and there will be only one
openSUSE supported kernel (4.4 it seems).

This means our Kernel team is going to have to support 2 kernels for a
longer period of time than they ever had to before. That's a lot of
work for them (especially as Leap 42.1 already chose something other
than the SLE kernel)

Taking the SLE Kernel effectively nullifies that extra work, provides
a more stable foundation for Leap users, ensures Leap users are going
to get a kernel that is constantly patched and exceptionally well
maintained, and is still newer than the
4.1 Kernel which was 2015's LTS Kernel and is in Leap 42.1

It's the best option we have today, it's the best option we will have
over summer, and will be the best for users when we release Leap 42.2
in November.

Obviously I think that Leap should offer full USB 3.1 Gen 2 support
prior to 42.3's release roughly 18 months from now. That will be
fully 2 years after USB 3.1 Gen 2 devices became available.

How that is achieved is I don't know. Back ports to the 4.4 kernel?
Formal support of the early 2017 LTS kernel?

Well your best bet would be to lobby for the backports into 4.4 kernel.
That way, you will have the greatest change to get "USB 3.1 Gen 2"
(10Gbs, Thunderbolt, etc) into Leap 42.2 / SLE12SP2.

And by lobby I mean asking upstream (kernel/lkml) for the backports.

A "Formal support of the early 2017 LTS kernel" is uptopian, sadly,
at best we would get LTS.next minus two releases. NOT what we want.

In light of the LTS kernel the only thing would be to move the
release date of Leap / SLE, e.g.
- Kernel in January / settling in Tumbleweed
- Leap first Alpha in late February / early March
- Leap first Beta mid/late April
- SLE (sp) first Alpha early May
- Leap freeze late May
- SLE (sp) first Beta mid June
- Leap last full patch pull-in / first RC mid/late June
- SLE (sp) freeze early July / or better mid August
- Leap release mid/late July
- SLE (sp) last full patch pull-in / first RC early / mid September
- SLE (sp) release early / mid October

May be little thighter, with a Leap release in late June.

Stacking the things this way you get the most benefit for the SLE team
(thus they have a great incentive to cooperate with the Leap team).
And for the SLE the date-move would not be that big.

Keep in mind the summer vacations.

SLE could pull in most of the Leap patches / updates before their RC
and thus avoiding many of the (unavoidable) early after release Leap bugs.

But all this talk on moving the release date will have no impact the
upcomming release this November.

You want full "USB 3.1 Gen 2" in Leap 42.2? -- Lobby upstream for backport!

- Yamaban.
bugzilla.kernel.org?
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