On 09/26/2012 07:09 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Just in case no one else has noticed - there is absolutely no (0, zero) benefit to anyone (user/admin/developer/packager/whoever) in omitting syslog from the default pattern/install. Yet it was suggested and we have been discussing it for quite some time now. I submit it should never have been suggested and certainly not discussed without someone arguing _why_ it is of benefit to the end user and hence worthwhile doing.
I think the suggestion was completely pointless and in the end only caused unnecessary consternation among those openSUSE users that have a use for syslog. The majority of the default openSUSE users (90% according to the thread) don't care anyway, so why waste effort on upsetting the 10%?
Per, let's not continue bike shedding here. Let's collect the facts first and then decide. Here's a quick intro about the journal: The journal is integrated into systemd and supported by the Linux kernel. It is a cryptographically protected (allowing knowing when it was tampered with by potential attackers), strongly typed logfile in comparison to /var/log/messages. It comes with some new tools to access it. The journal integrates nicely with syslog/rsyslog, you can use them in parallel. I consider it as a logging solution for stand-alone desktops. For a stand-alone desktop, the majority of users does not need syslog if the journal is available. And the stand-alone desktop is the primary target of openSUSE. Some reference from Peter Czanik, an upstream syslog author with additional information: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2012-09/msg00716.html http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2012-09/msg00828.html Per, is anything I state in the above wrong? If not, then let's discuss to your initial point: Removal of syslog. For servers, syslog is indeed useful and we should continue to support it. The questions are: * Should we install syslog on the desktop by default even if the majority of users will not use it? * If not: is there a way to install syslog it as part of a server installation? Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org