Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (1134 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Add Edit Feature to Yast Boot Loader using Grub2 for 12.2
On Wed 20 Jun 2012 02:37:22 PM EDT, Brian K. White wrote:
On 6/20/2012 3:14 AM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Josef Reidinger wrote:
[...]
Yes, this way is possible to write grub2 part of yast2 bootloader. But
it doesn't edit grub.cfg. It edits /etc/default/grub from which is
generated grub.cfg (so don't have full control for all configuration,
just subset that grub2 developer decide that you can modify). Grub2
allows even bigger configuration changes, but it contain changes in
generators and it is really tricky part.

That's retarded. Back to the yast1 days of shell script generated config
files? I thought we try to get of SuSEconfig and now we are introducing
a mechanism like SuSEconfig for the boot loader.
What's the killer feature of grub2 that's worth swallowing the bitter
pill of giving up sane yast support?

cu
Ludwig


That aspect of grub2 is the way grub2 works.

It's not a suse or opensuse decision.

I hate it too but the upstream grub developers say it's the only sane
way for them to support the wild and dynamic range of boot scenarios
that exist today.

I agree that the needs of bootloaders are crazy today vs in the past.

But even if I were to agree that the bootloader needed an interpreted
scripting language to provide the flexibility and run-time
adaptability required today, I don't see why it has to be a new
from-scratch one that no one knows, instead of being something
standard that already exists, or at least a subset or superset. For
example, as obscure as the freebsd bootloader is, it's at least a
standard language, forth. You may or may not like forth as a language
for most jobs, but it's been around a long time and it's syntax and
methodologies have been documented a lot and it is at least used in a
few other places and is useful for some other situations, so learning
it isn't a _total_ waste of your time. Learning the grub2 syntax is
_only_ good for grub2. Who the heck is ever going to ever get
comfortable at that for casual infrequent yet commonly desired edits?
I can't do the simplest little thing in grub2 without careful googling
and hoping to hell I can find someone elses example that works. The
average person will not be able to make common edits, only grub
experts will. That's not a desirable design to me no matter what the
other benefits.

I also like that:
The bootloader goes from config files (lilo, grub1) to scripting
language (grub2), at the same time init goes from scripts (sysv) to
config files (systemd).

Can they both be right about the best way to do the job in the future?
Is there anything about those two different jobs that really results
in this setup being the sanest? I don't think so. I think one or the
other approach is saner and applies to both jobs. I think the
scripting approach is ultimately more useful so I'm all for grub2
going dynamic, but I just wish it was some standard language that is
not a waste of time to learn, and arrange things so that the main
config doesn't necessarily require an expert scripter to make common
changes. You can write the most complex script and have a section, or
a whole separate include-file, that just has basic variable
definitions anyone can safely edit.


It's a shame that openSUSE's Yast has not been able to completely integrate Grub2
the same way that they have done with Grub1.

Perhaps in a future version of 12.2x.


Cheers!

Roman
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