You may recall a lengthy post I made concerning systemd some months back... Just to let you know, I have not installed 12.1 and am unlikely to install a 11.4+ version due to openSuSE's adoption of systemd. GKH may advise Gentoo to adopt systemd but I don't see it happening anytime soon - a bit like the decision on having /USR mounted on a separate partition... I now have several formerly-openSuSE desktop machines running Gentoo (utilising OpenRC). Meanwhile, my former OpenSuSE servers run OpenBSD. I am shifting other machines to FreeBSD. My feeling is that openSuSE has been suffering from an identity crisis for some time - dropping enterprise robustness to chase desktop performance. Meanwhile, detaching itself slowly from regular system administrators to please no doubt skilled but, on occasion, fickle developers. Developers who want to chase the stars. True, without Developers - there would be no innovation; but Developers are by their nature not too concerned with providing long-term stable architectures. That is NOT a criticism - it is an observation of how I develop my code in development circumstances - but it rarely suits users or enterprises seeking stable systems. openSuSE for me WAS a solid server and/or desktop system which while not as conservative as Debian did not rush to adopt brand new things like, say, Ubuntu and, recently, Fedora. Increasingly, however, openSuSE has followed Fedora rather than steering its own course. What seems to be happening now is that the attempt to adopt a lot of new things at once is leading to over-trading (for want of a better word) and exhaustion of the resources available (key developers and maintainers). Effort is being fragmented. The ultimate outcome leads to users and enterprises being scared-off and the burn-out of developers - hence slippage on RC1. The solution is for a guiding council to re-establish openSuSE's original mission - to provide an up-to-date but solid server and desktop environment - and select a reduced set of new developments to be adopted in one release. Consolidation of what has been gained before venturing forward anew. Changing the ethos of openSuSE by seeking to compete with OpenBSD-stable for servers, Gentoo's modularity for skilled administrators/developers, Ubuntu's/Fedora's radical desktop developments (when not provided with the resources of Canonical or Red Hat to iron out problems while keeping users happy) or the user experience of Android (cf. Win8) (when lacking Google's/Microsoft's resources) is ultimately futile. openSuSE must rediscover what originally made it a great OS - it's highly-functional reliable stability. I wish openSuSE luck because I'm afraid you have already lost me - barring a complete volte-face on certain decisions which lead openSuSE-developers are unlikely to reverse, unfortunately. Mike On 13/06/12 20:42, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
Onsdag den 13. juni 2012 20:33:08 Jos Poortvliet skrev: Easy for you to say since you're already not using openSUSE but rather Tumbleweed. A 12 month schedule does not automatically make it more stable, unless maybe if you also increase the various freeze periods. But that'll just make developers/packagers and testers even less interested in testing/using factory than is already the case - and move even more activity away from factory to little toy OBS projects - and hence away from the distro that actually matters. I personally think 8 months is the perfect balance. It's not clear to me what exactly has gone wrong with 12.2 anyway. In my brief tests 12.2beta seemed pretty good. Usually the beta is the worst milestone of them all, cuz it's just after feature freeze. The 12.2 schedule took a hard hit from a pair of hard disk failures back-to-back in the OBS servers. As to the quality of the beta, I had to give up on it. KDE is crashing with known KDE bugs that send me to
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Martin Schlander
wrote: the upstream KDE bug tracker automatically, and GRUB2 rendered one of my machines unbootable. To be fair, Beefy Miracle's GRUB2 did the same thing on this ancient box. ;-) My current development / test cycle is centered on KDE and Fedora / OpenShift Origin, so I had to give up on 12.2 for a while. My preference would be for a Debian / Gentoo model, where stable servers are rock-solid and secure. The kernel, LXC/KVM/libvirt, Apache, MySQL, PHP, PostgreSQL, Perl/CPAN, Python/Django, Ruby/Rails/Sinatra, Java and to a lesser extent Node.js, Redis and MongoDB are what matters for servers. If all of that is stable, I say the distro is stable. Then layer everything else on top of that - compilers, desktops, productivity suites, browsers, etc. when they're stable upstream via the Tumbleweed process. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org