On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Sorry, I lost what you want to do while translating the input form.
Could you summarize what you will do before important change?
Hi, Fuminobu, here are the simple version of my poll summary: Hi, everyone, I know you drop Distribution Default IM and use yours, like I do. so I wonder why we poll your top choice out and make it default? because the replacement is actually easy. (some IMs' introduction) don't worry too much about the DVD size, because we have enough size.:) and the options: do you use IM? yes/no/just show my support, I'm not SuSE user, but I support you. where are you from? China/JP/Hongkong/Taiwan/Singapore/outside world ...(the last two are jokes.) which IM do you use? what about the drop? both/scim/ibus/no replacement (the last two are jokes) what we should ship in DVD? (the last one is a joke) other better suggestion ?(text field) are you human/computer? human/computer. (we can't trust computer's vote)
Well, the purpose of the survey is to know what input method frameworks and engines should be in official repository (ISOs) and not for deciding the default frameworks and engines, right?
for Japan, YES. because MOZC, we all know. for Chinese, we'll replace scim/ibus or both with users' top choice. but for Japan, eg, we'll ship MOZC in DVD, but default still IBus.
Are you trying to change the default IMs and engines? "Default" does not mean automatically installed. A default input method is one that is available after installation.
then, no. I'm trying to change C/K automatically installed ones. if in DVD, it's available, right? the for J, FCITX/IBUS/MOZC will all be there.
so do you mean Canna is popular in Japan? like Fcitx in China? No, it is an old Japanese conversion engine but I used it for a Canna-compatible conversion engine. Canna is not supported by IBus. Then, I'm implementing ibus-canna.
anthy is Japanese scim? No.
Fcitx, IBus, SCIM, UIM and ... are called input method framework. # also called, environment, platform. Anthy, Mozc, Canna, ... are input method (conversion) engines. These frameworks connect engines to Qt, Gtk and XIM.
IBus is now most common input method framework and widely used on major distributions including openSUSE, Ubuntu, Fedora, ... de-facto standard? It replaced SCIM because SCIM could not support Gtk3.
The default input method and engine on 12.1 for Japanese is ibus-anthy, which means connector for Anthy and IBus.
scim-anthy was used until 11.4.
oh I see. thanks.
does every input method can be easy switched off using ctrl+space? In IBus and SCIM, we can assign, for example, "Henkan" to turning on IM and "Muhenkan" to turning off, not toggling. # like Mac OS X :D
oh. that's easy. can be done in FCITX too.
# I will enhancement and bug reports directly to fcitx project. # Let's discuss there! (in English)
okay, big hug and thanks! I'll keep improving the EN docs.
Some Japanese community members are googling but they cannot find how it is.
in Japanese?
and in English. I think you need more and more information to spread fcitx on the website. I also have not understand the benefit yet.
...but we don't know Japanese. maybe we can find someone knows in Chinese Community. and you J community modified after because it'll not be so precise due to languages obstacles.
How many users? I heard he would not use gcin since it is too old. I don't know fcitx-chewing is OK for him. Not too much. 4 - 5. but only 15 or more votes now. yes, old. if you ask him again, he might be using hime now.
I asked him last week, so... It might be normal input method for zh_tw on Ubuntu?
yes....default and forced...like what GNOME is planning to do... users had hard times to replace it. users are crazy on Lauchpad...
(2012/05/13 1:25), Weng Xuetian wrote:
fcitx-chewing is developed by a Taiwan developer. And some of Taiwan user are using it, AFAIK there is no much problem about it. (snip)
Some additional info, the fcitx-chewing developer used to be a hime developer.
I'll ask him about gcin/hime/chewing/fcitx-chewing again.
Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
(2012/05/13 1:11), Marguerite Su wrote:
On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:49 PM, Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
wrote: please help me translate the introduction and options into Japanese, and send them to me. I'll modify the form then.
btw, please help me add some sentence in Japanese to encourage use write the input method he's now using and would like to use. because in my options, there're only one Japanese method, mozc( I really have little knowledge of Japanese IM)
- Why "IM" and "IM engine" are mixed? - There are a lot of unneeded sentences make it more simple
oh sorry, feel free to correct any tech fault. I'm not good at it. although you treat me as a packager, but indeed I'm no better than a tech newbie.
yes. you can fully control your version.
any feedback or suggestion to him is appreciated.(eg, which input method backend is the most famous and successful in Japan, anthy? skk? wnn? or else?)
Bug reports written in Japanese are acceptable?
# If fcitx supports canna and separated key settings for IM-on/off, # I'll consider to use fcitx. Note that this is just for me :)
well, I'll ask Weng Xuetian.
but I think if the description in Japanese is really plain enough, he can read it in Google Translate.
but he can't reply in Japanese. that's where the problem is.
so do you mean Canna is popular in Japan? like Fcitx in China? anthy is Japanese scim?
then he really needs to reconsider about the priority of anthy...
does every input method can be easy switched off using ctrl+space? every Chinese IM has this "feature", it's so common that can't be called a feature any more.
Weng is fighting with GNOME people about the compulsory hard coded IBus.
I'll bring him in here.
and Takashi didn't want mozc to be included as default IM for jp locale. because it's close developed and does not accept any patch. if one day it fails, japanese users will hate us because they don't know the details.
My suggestion is you should write documents about fcitx. Some Japanese community members are googling but they cannot find how it is.
in Japanese?
fcitx.org is the wiki site. and has english versions. we're making it better and more detailed.
but to tell the truth, famous bugs are still there, like input in Firefox/Chromium, and etc.
users already have bad impression on it. once they leave, it's harder to call them back than newbies.
Could you show me URLs to bugzilla of Novell or other distributions?
okay, Weng has his hands full with this.
He must like to show off such bugs as the medal of his success.
in my survey, there're Taiwan users who are using ibus, but vote for gcin/hime.
How many users? I heard he would not use gcin since it is too old. I don't know fcitx-chewing is OK for him.
Not too much. 4 - 5. but only 15 or more votes now.
yes, old. if you ask him again, he might be using hime now.
it's a fork of gcin.
and if ibus-chewing is ok for him, fcitx-chewing will be beyond.
because weng develops it according to ibus-chewing, XD.
Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
(12/05/11 17:09), Marguerite Su wrote:
Hi, last night I asked coolo about how to replace input methods in ISOs. he said all I have to do is to make proposal here and cc-ed to related parts like maintianers of those input methods and users interested in.
Here're the names I found from OBS. they're package maintainers. below are their packages and locales.
Me myself: fcitx, hime. zh_CN
hillwood: fcitx zh_CN
swyear: fcitx, ibus, gcin zh_TW
tiwai: mozc, scim jp
ftake: mozc jp
and if everyone feel affected or involved in this issue, please feel free to join.
(because those input methods also support other languages besides CJK, although such support is minor.)
and Here're the packages involved:
scim/ibus: they're the Chinese input methods in the old days.
fcitx/gcin/hime: they're the Chinese input methods in modern Linux.
mozc: it's popular IM in Japan.
of course they're both for Linux, and both open source works.
and the situation is, when I freshly installed openSUSE, the first thing I do is uninstall those old-time input methods and install new ones. so I wonder if this situation is common, and if it is common, why not replace them by default instead of leaving works to our users?
so I made a survey:
https://docs.google.com/a/marguerite.su/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDdoMmU...
and posted on G+, forums. the temporary result I've got is this situation is common in Chinese Community.
(tiwai or ftake, can you please translate to Japanese and spread it out to Japanese Community?)
(since we do not have active Korean developers here, so no way to hear from them. so only C and J here.)
and my proposal is:
1. drop scim/ibus from DVD/CD. (they're really old and react slow to bugs and have famous bugs) 2. add fcitx/gcin/mozc in. (hime is just another fork of gcin. it's another issue, it has a small user database)
so guys what do you think?
Marguerite
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