Hi Lars, Thanks for so quickly replying! Op 09-11-11 22:17, Lars Müller schreef:
Hi Jogchum,
On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 08:31:54PM +0100, Jogchum Reitsma wrote:
Me too is an (open)suse fan and user since, well, I don't know exactly, but in any case since 1997. Then I bought a Hercules Dynamite 3D/GL card, for which had to *buy* a driver to get it working with Suse. I still have the card... Oh well, I still have such formerly expensive hardware, if IIRC a graphics card es well. Some old Matrox with dual head VGA and no fan. The first sending me an add address get this one for free.
WHich reminds me that I have to bring a system for my colleague Anders on the way. Shame on me.
I have seen Suse, later OpenSuse getting better, better and even better. Good to read!
But it still isn't what is more or less my mantra since I'm in IT (that's 1985, student time not counted): a computer should be as easy to use as a vacuum cleaner. Well, it probably will never be... That's up to any of us. The big advantage to Microsoft is the way it gets deployed. It's preloaded in - I guess - more than 95% of the systems. That's the first "pro". The second is ask people on the street who is able to help you with Microsoft Windows and who is able to or even willing to make the hands "dirty" with a Linux system?
I have a good friend at university and I gave some hints to install Linux as a second system. Soon after the sysadmin of the institution was replaced and the new one told: If I would have known here is a Linux system running earlier I would not have taken this job. I'm no longer sure if I laughed or cried. :\ My father in law, 73 years old, is also very happy with the 11.4 release I installed there...
In my posting on this list of 4-11 ("Mixed findings<...>") I have two examples: no sound, which I have solved, but without having the faintest idea how. I won't recap the posting on that, but for a newbie linux user it would most certainly be a reason in its own to refrain from it. Especially since there was no answer to it on this list, too. There had been may posting on the sound topic after the openSUSE 11.4 release.
On my ever upgraded openSUSE 12.1 RC 2 I currently have it working and had nothing to change while the upgrade from 11.4 with the following packages:
alsa-utils-1.0.24.2-12.1.2 alsa-plugins-pulse-1.0.24-18.1.2 alsa-plugins-pulse-32bit-1.0.24-18.1.2 alsa-devel-1.0.24.1-23.1.2 alsa-plugins-32bit-1.0.24-18.1.2 alsa-oss-32bit-1.0.17-37.1.2 alsa-oss-1.0.17-37.1.2 alsa-plugins-1.0.24-18.1.2 pulseaudio-module-x11-1.1-1.2 pulseaudio-utils-1.1-1.2 pulseaudio-module-bluetooth-1.1-1.2 pulseaudio-esound-compat-1.1-1.2 pulseaudio-module-zeroconf-1.1-1.2 pulseaudio-module-lirc-1.1-1.2 pulseaudio-module-jack-1.1-1.2 pulseaudio-module-gconf-1.1-1.2 pulseaudio-1.1-1.2
Isn't there a "how do I get sound working?" article in the wiki?
http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Audio_troubleshooting w00t!
And none of you checked this if it still is valid. tstzststs See at the top it was checked to work for 11.2 and 11.3. Come on, make me feel good and happy and try to solve your issue following the article. If it works add oS 11.4 or 12.1 to the "Tested on openSUSE". Get your hand dirty as mine are! :) You definitively have a point there. I must say I didn't have the time yet to look into it in depth. I would most certainly have found the solution somewhere, if I hadn't stumbled upon getting it to work.
So for *me* it's not an unsolvable problem. The point I tried to make is that for an average, plain user, especially as a first-timer, it probably will be a show stopper. Which is a pity, I think, for the OSS-case in general, more specific for Linux, even more specific for OpenSuse. So please see my posting as an - admittedly very tiny - contribution to prohibit that.
Second example - in the same post - is video, which still is unsolved. Also on this subject there wasn't any answer on this list. And yes, I have a two monitor setup. I agree which you that will be a minority of the use cases, but I think it's a rather substantial minority. Especially if you are (as an amateur or by profession) in video- of photo editing, a dual monitor setup is a big pré. ATI or Nvidia?
OSS or the closed thing?
With my GeForce 6200 and oS 11.4 I had no luck with the OSS version. While it works with very small and occasional artefacts on 12.1 RC 1 and 2 quite well.
http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Configuring_graphics_cards is even longer! Must be better therefore. ;)
ATI, OSS. But I think I better file a bug report somewhere in the Xorg/KDE corner. My Geforce 8600 died, but in 11.4 I had got that one working with nouveau.
I'm sure the problems I have will be solved in the end, but again, a newbie linux user must be very determined not to leave when confronted with them. And even more so hearing the disappointing sound of silence on the report of his findings. That's why it sometimes even needs more than communication on list. The anual openSUSE Conference is a good event for end users and developers. There you can work in hands on sessions with others and listen to high quality first hand information from developers.
But it's not only such an possible expensive - you usually have to pay for travel and accomodation whiel coffee and some food was sponsored; you see you missed this maybe most important part - and time consuming event where you might meet people which also use Linux. Check if there is something happening local. Expenses wouldn't be a very big point, if held in Germany. Time, and care for our 6-year old, is. Meet with others and flame about these ignorant SUSE guys. I won't do flaming. Constructive criticism is something else... Better sit together, solve the issue and check if you can enhance the wiki. The wike is there for you.
BTW it gets annoying more and more to me as my chanages needs approval - this really sucks; why do we need this overhead for an article about Samba? Why do we need waste man power? Do I understand this? Never mind; I probably won't have to. What would my answer be: file a bug report. ;) See above.
Adé
Lars Thanks, Jogchum
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