Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (710 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] The road to systemd for openSUSE 12.1
  • From: Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:01:03 +0200
  • Message-id: <1308232865.2794.22.camel@mop>
On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 15:51 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Thursday 16 June 2011 15:44:58 Kay Sievers wrote:
On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 15:35 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Thursday 16 June 2011 15:21:29 Kay Sievers wrote:
What fails? Can you give some relevant examples?

Everything that uses the udev database which was populated with /usr
around but needed tools from there to do so.

Ah yes. udev is also one of your projects. Also pushed into the initrd
for absolutely no reason whatever, and the cause of so many problems
because of it that it's not even funny

Thanks for the absolutely-no-reason-whatever expert opinion.

You're welcome. I can show you the pain it has caused me and my colleagues.

Because of udev in the initrd, we now have discovery of every single device
so
early, we have problems with the interaction between mpio and lvm/md, we have
problems with configuration files because every time anything changes that
affects those things the initrd has to be rebuilt, we have problems debugging
because it's virtually impossible to debug discovery failures in the initrd.

The initrd is supposed to be an extremely small thing that gets the root file
system mounted, and everything else is supposed to happen afterwards, once
the
real root has been mounted. It is not supposed to contain a small operating
system

I don't think we share this opinion.

The iniramfs is there to mount / (and in the future also everything else
that's needed). Statement like 'extremely small' are just misguiding.

They need to be as big as they need to be to get their job done. And if
setting up / is that expensive, we just need the needed tools there.

You might just want to switch the technology below your rootfs to
something more abstract, then you might don't need one at all.

And yes, udev in the initrd is the cause of quite a number of totally
unnecessary bugs. Especially when it was pushed into the initrd
in SLES9 while

I don't know about udev in SLE9's initramfs. I've never seen that.

it was still deemed unfit for the main system, but even today

Thanks again!

Kay

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