Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (710 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] The road to systemd for openSUSE 12.1
  • From: Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:21:29 +0200
  • Message-id: <1308230490.1547.51.camel@mop>
On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 15:01 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Thursday 16 June 2011 14:46:47 Kay Sievers wrote:
On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 14:23 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Thursday 16 June 2011 14:04:47 Will Stephenson wrote:
3) What are the big gaps that it doesn't currently do, compared to
sysvinit? I hear of things like encrypted LVM volumes not working
being dismissed as unimportant.
I'll start you off with "password agents to do interactive things
during service startup, eg openvpn passwords" (bnc675406):

read-only /usr mounts I believe were dismissed as unimportant as well

They can't work reliably, and never worked reliably for any non-trivial
setup. They did not in the recent past, and never will in the future.
Anybody who still claims that hasn't look into any of the
non-interesting details of the current reality.

What fails? Can you give some relevant examples?

Everything that uses the udev database which was populated with /usr
around but needed tools from there to do so.

Network setups are known to fail. 3G modems get the wrong drivers
attached. Sound does not work. All the stuff that has deeper
dependencies on hardware/device setups.

Simple web/file servers are usually not a problem, but it's really hard
to debug what went wrong if things go wrong, and the dependency on
proper early boot get larger and larger.

Everything that uses D-Bus, it's entire config is in /usr. Systemd, and
a growing number of tools, wants D-Bus properly started up very early.

As far as I'm aware, anything that runs before boot.localfs should only use
things in /bin /sbin or /lib and anything that runs that early that
/usr is just broken

Can you point to any bug reports of things breaking when /usr is mounted read-

No, we just tell everybody running into it not to do that fiddling
with /usr. And most of the people who already do that don't need any
advanced feature today.

We just require that /usr is mounted from initramfs, when systemd is
started, nobody cares where /usr comes from or if its writable.

initramfs? Are you suggesting sticking that thing into the initrd?

What do you mean by 'that thing'? I suggest to mount /usr from inside
the initramfs, just like we mount / from there, before init/udev/D-Bus
or anything which might need /usr is started, yes.


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