Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (661 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) for openSUSE.
  • From: Egbert Eich <eich@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:19:36 +0100
  • Message-id: <20091204111936.GD9788@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 03:05:41AM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

Because I can (and do) now, and don't want to lose the ability. :-)

Better answer: Web site development flexibility. It's easier to see what
users see using different settings when you use some of their settings life
size. It's a lot more comfortable to do the evaluations without the head
turning required using the multiple displays required if sticking to native
flat panel resolutions. A quality CRT can run the gamut of resolutions too.
To run the gamut with LCDs would take a mountain of wiring and physical
space, not to mention all the extra hardware. AFAIK what I asked about and do
is impossible on a Mac or Windoz.

Or maybe I want the same mode on more than one, but without panning enabled
on one (straight 1600x1200), and with on another (1600x1200 plus panning to
1920 wide to emulate WUXGA).

Fine. Xrandr supports that.

In my original posting I mentioned the standard use case and how it is
tried to make this use case the default. But I also mentioned that if
you need/want something else support is there to change it.

The majority of users today run flat panel monitors (I know there are
exceptions and there is no need to try to convince me differently).

FWIW, did you happen to notice that 100% of the modes I listed are 4:3 modes
that few currently available-on-store-shelves LCDs can do?

Flat panels work well on their native resolution. Anything other
than native resolution will get rescaled internally and will look
fuzzy or blurry in some way. Thus you want to run it at its native
resolution as much as possible.

Which is why I use a 4:3 CRT.

DDC tells the 'preferred mode' and KMS will try to set it on startup.
This should prevent you from ever having to switch modes.

Less flexibility is not for me. I'll clip the DDC pin off the cable's plug if
I have to to prevent smarty pants X from telling me what mode I must use on a

Have you actually been following this thread or have you just dropped in
for ranting?
I think it has been mentioned ample times here that you can switch modes with
xrandr and set your favorite mode while your X session is running.
The desktop tools for xrandr will remember the last mode you've set
and reset it next time you log in.

The things you are mentioning in your message have been supported by xrandr
or have been added (even panning is back now thanks to Matthias Hopf).

I really fail to see what tree you are barking at. I believe that xrandr adds
a lot of flexibility which will make things you want to do more easy than ever

However there is nothing in KMS that prevents you from switching modes.
I'm not sure if you can have different resolutions on different virtual
text consoles (or if chaning it for one console it will change it for all)

This is the inverse of the question I originally asked. I'd normally rather
all text consoles use the same, but might on occasion want different.

but if you run X for example it will be able to set a different resolution
than your text console.

There is nothing in the design of KMS that would prevent this.

I hope. Quoting you from several hours ago: "It often doesn't work that way.
Devs often have high flying goals and discover in the end the hard way that
they cannot deliver."

Oh, I strongly believe what you need is supported and is working well.

But if not - what do you want to do about it? Rant about it endlessly?

This will only distract people who are able to fix thing from doing so.

What keeps bothering me is the undertone in a few - definitely not
all - of the messages here. I keep finding the same undertone in bugzilla:
endless sarcastic rants blaming those who do the work for not working
even more and harder and letting them know how stupid they are breaking
or no longer supporting certain features.

What do you suggest we do? Stop developing so that things stay the
same as they have in the past? Tell people to shop for hardware
on Ebay to find stuff old enough to run on those system?

Certainly noone can rule out that desing decisions are made which have
a stronger impact on existing functionality than strictly necessary
and sometimes those people who make the decisions don't look beyond
their plates and envision the needs of others - but in the free software
world it's the people who do the work who decide how things will look
Those doing work on openSUSE don't always have full control over such
things and need to stick with what others have decided in the upstream


Egbert Eich (Res. & Dev.) SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
X Window System Development
Tel: +49 911-740 53 0
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
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