Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (393 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Printing in openSUSE 10.3
  • From: JP Rosevear <jpr@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 10:59:02 -0500
  • Message-id: <1173369543.22189.260.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 10:04 +0100, Johannes Meixner wrote:
> Hello,
> On Mar 7 10:46 JP Rosevear wrote (shortened):
> > On Wed, 2007-03-07 at 16:39 +0100, Johannes Meixner wrote:
> > > On Mar 7 10:30 JP Rosevear wrote (shortened):
> > > > On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 10:58 +0100, Johannes Meixner wrote:
> > > > > Your info is too terse for me.
> > > > > I still do not understand the end-user's situation.
> > > > > Please do not misunderstand me - I don't want to do nitpicking.
> > > > > But I need to understand the whole picture from the end-user's point
> > > > > of view - otherwise whatever nice-looking implementation may not
> > > > > solve the actual end-user problem.
> > > >
> > > > The situtation is the end user doesn't want to type in a password
> > > > to do simple operations.
> > >
> > > Frommy point of viwe it seems from mail to mail
> > > you change the issue (it started with USB printers,
> > > became network printers, now it is about typing passwords)
> > > and it seems you still don't tell the whole story.
> >
> > No, the user should not need root to include any printers, I just didn't
> > explicitly call out network printers to begin with and I should have.
> You mix up many different things is your requests
> that I don't know what you actually want.
> I asked you several times to provide more info about the
> original problem and the user situation but all I get
> are terse snippets which are useless at least for me.

I will put this as plainly as I can, the original problems are:

1) It sucks for home users to have to enter a password to setup a

2) Large corporate environments don't want to give out a root password,
but do want people to be able to configure a printer still.

You pointed out the policy piece in cups 1.2 which is great, that gives
us the underlying tools to solve this. We just need to figure out how
to set this up nicely for people instead of using vim to edit a file on
disk. Klaus's role bast yast email sounds promising for this.

> You talk about USB printers and home users and about printing
> in big networks with hundreds of printers (obviously now a
> business environment) where dedicated admins exist and full
> automated setup of printers (in the network?) and not being
> root to set up printing (in the network?) and whatever else
> may come into mind when talking about "the printing stuff".

See above, two cases to be solved by the same mechanism.

> > > > > Why do you want to implement Windows-stlye printing
> > > > > when we use CUPS on Linux?
> > > >
> > > > Because its what most users expect and want, even many linux ones.
> > >
> > > I am afraid but it seems now we are at a dead end.
> >
> > Why exactly are we at a dead end? We agreed in the dist meeting not
> > needing root to configure a printer was a valid use case.
> We are at a dead end when you want to pervert how printing
> is done under Unix/Linux operating sytems (for CUPS and even
> for the old-stlye Unix/Linux printing systems like LPR and LPRng)
> into how printing is done under Windows (and iPrint).

I personally don't think setting up cups policies that mimic "Windows or
OS X printing permission requirements is "perverting the Unix/Linux
way"? There are millions of people who expect this kind of behavior. I
want them all to be happy SUSE users. I think even existing users will
by and large like this change, and if not it needs to be optional

> Because you wrote "most users expect and want" this,
> it means you want to do Windows-stlye printing by default.
> This is the dead end.

Nope, its a challenge. We need to present the average end/home user
with what they want and expect. You've talked a lot about how cups
differs. The windows-style part I'm looking for is the end user
experience, its not to fundamentally change how cups works.

> Again:
> Please be exact with your wording!
> "do Windows-stlye printing" is different to "no need to be root
> to do something" (which is different to "not type in a password").

Not having a password is the key. Maybe I jumped a head on the
implementation, but a simple way to do this is to not require being root
for this operation.

JP Rosevear <jpr@xxxxxxxxxx>
Novell, Inc.

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