Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (592 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] YAST new icons
  • From: Bart Otten <bart.otten85@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 00:35:42 +0200
  • Message-id: <200610170035.43668.bart.otten85@xxxxxxxxx>
Op maandag 16 oktober 2006 23:24, schreef Andreas Hanke:
> Per Jessen schrieb:
> > I believe that Novell would like to sell a product that is pleasing to
> > the eye too. So when I call such a drastic change in icons "ugly",
> > yes, I do believe it will work. I don't think they're inconsistent nor
> > do I think they're out of place, I only think they're ugly and dull (in
> > comparison to the previous set).
>
> OK, let's disagree then ;-)
>
> With many different bug reports in many different open source projects,
> I repeatedly made the experience that using vocabulary of the "ugly and
> dull" category is a very efficient way to get one's wishes addressed
> later and worse (or maybe even not at all!) instead of faster and better
> because it forces the one who made the decision into a position of
> defending himself instead of cooperating with you. But let's see.

That's what I try to tell but I am not an native English speaker.
Inconsistent, that''s the word.

> > Maybe so - nonetheless you suggested that a plain user of openSUSE would
> > be likely to create a new set of icons - presumably when you're quite
> > well aware that doing so requires significant graphical and artistical
> > talent and effort. That is called sarcasm.
>
> No, this is not sarcasm, this is just a problem description. The
> previous icon theme has been designed by an artist who is no longer
> designing YaST icons (that's what I understand, at least). Besides all
> "ugly and dull" categorizations, criticism needs to be constructive as
> well, and this is a problem because someone has to find and pay an
> artist who is able to create icons that match the previous theme in the
> first place.

Maybe openSUSE shhould do a world wide call for artists? I bugreport
ssometimes but I really can't do anything about it myself. I can not code
and I do not have time to learn. However, it's my specialism to look
like 'Average Joe' and report with that in mind. Let me say it this way:
Average Joe will think the icons are ugly in KDE cause they are different
from all the other.

Do not forget: how many new items appeared in YaST and how many Crystal-icons
are there? I think it is not so hard to find some icon for the new entries. I
want to search for it but until now I do not get much response at graphical
things...that makes we wonder if I want to spend time with it while
bugreporting is something they WILL do anyting about.

Example:
- new AppArmor-icon for Yast, cause the current is inconsistent. It is just a
little bit different and with my noob-skills I spend long time to optimize so
it would look better. No response (guess it is still in bugzilla...for month)
- I wanted to talk about a new graphical installation and made some mockups.
Andreas openSUSE (can get his name, tired) was nice and connected me to some
graphical artists from Novell/openSUSE. Spend some time to mockup my ideas
but......never heard from them....not even comments on my mockups. BTW>
Thanks to Anderas, he was really interested or did like he was. Don't care
which from the two, as long as I feel they look at my work. (ps. There is now
some changes in installer with a 'background', maybe they picked up some
ideas maybe they allready had the idea...who knows.......I don't)

- I reported about the progress-bars in Yast and how I think it can be better.
In progress
- Complained about nvidia-drivers for legacy-cards (Fixed! Awsome nvidia!)
- 100 more 'system' things that is worked on or have allready been fixed.

What would you choose to report and use your time for? Would centainly not
complain about openSUSE system-maintainers and devvers...But have my doubts
about the graphic artists and how they deal with suggestions (if you guys
have comment, flame me I can have it...)

Maybe....it would be nice if all developers would just describe what they did
in one week. Not in many words, just some keywords. Cause I cannot think of
an graphic artist that spends 4 month on a refreshment of openSUSE to the
next edition

> The other solution is working together with the artist who designed the
> new theme in order to make the new theme prettier and more acceptable
> for as many users as possible. But for that in order to happen, the
> criticism is (I'm really sorry to say that) far too hostile. Refusing to
> cooperate with a party that makes this sort of criticism is something
> that I would call legitimate.

See above.
>
> > Yeah, of course YaST is unlikely to be used a lot once you're up and
> > running, that's very true. But your argument about some or other
> > minor KDE apps was just as bad, I think.
>
> It's not getting better. The integration work that has been put into
> these items isn't minor. I think that there is a general problem of
> underestimating other people's work and efforts, which is exactly what I
> call "an approach that won't work".

I think we cannot even image the work that is done by so many. And I think we
should try to 'hint' people before talk to them and before any public
discussion. However, I am not payed by Novell, I have to work my ass of for
my bread and house, I care about openSUSE and what it will look like in the
eyes of noob-users, I discussion on this list while I don't have time for it
but I think it has to be discussed, I report bugs and even try to understand
them, and I got a 10.1-box for that! Thats great. Really, can't use a smile
otherwise people will see that the text above will end happy before the read
it. openSUSE is great, let's make it even better.

Bart Otten
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