Hi As a result of a core network failure on a scale I hope none of you ever have to face, I've only just had the delightful experience of reading today's developments of "wont run as root". I have to say some of it appalled me. Andrew (Nix, not Ray!) has made it clear a number of times that he is new to Linux; he joined this list on my suggestion as it is intended to help those trying to make Linux a solution in the UK schools environment, and I do not have either enough time or enough knowledge to resolve all the problems he comes across by being both a Linux "newbie" and supporting a cutting edge environment. To give some background, the Linux thin client network that faces our Mr Nix every working day is one of the biggest in the world (no exaggeration); it is also one of the only large-scale Linux deployments in an English school. Because of the realities of the British education system, there has been neither enough time or money to provide Andrew and his colleague with the training that they ideally would have had to support such a solution. This list provides them with access to essential front-line knowledge to make their position vaguely tenable. Those that are helped tend to become the helpers of the future; this is the primary advantage to me of utilising open source solutions - there's always someone slightly ahead of you who can help you the next step up the ladder, empowering you to then help those below. Don't take this personally, Thomas, but your answers have become increasingly complex, difficult to understand and are often not the simplest solution. Occam's razor is a simple tool for simple people like myself; please think about using it. In the thread in question, Garry gave a simple and effective answer which I personally was unaware of and have stored away for future use. While your discussion with our Mr Ray has been enlightening in parts, if I had read it 2 years ago it would have made very little sense and been of no use. And that's the point; on this list, unlike some others, answers need to be of use and preferably immediate. That's why people join, to ask for help. Moreover, by its very nature, many people joining will be very new to Linux, and possibly have little general technical understanding; those of us who can help do. When we can't help, we look forward to answers from those with more knowledge. As always, this is just IMNSHO (in my not so humble opinion!). Chris